BOP reflashed PCM is in
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
From: Conway, AR
Originally posted by 03Lightning
hslightnin
It looks like we are still not on the same page. The AFR went up bacause you are comparing it to a none NO2 run that was unusually ritch. The tuners at Speed Works felt that it was because interfearance from the NO2 fuel pressure modification. What AFR do 4lb chiped trucks show in the same conditons? Also no one has addressed why when the NO2 jets were changed the AFR stayed within .50 and as close as .00 (even) as the increasingly higher shots were used. This couldn't be adaptive strategy could it?
hslightnin
It looks like we are still not on the same page. The AFR went up bacause you are comparing it to a none NO2 run that was unusually ritch. The tuners at Speed Works felt that it was because interfearance from the NO2 fuel pressure modification. What AFR do 4lb chiped trucks show in the same conditons? Also no one has addressed why when the NO2 jets were changed the AFR stayed within .50 and as close as .00 (even) as the increasingly higher shots were used. This couldn't be adaptive strategy could it?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach
Originally posted by NateTrun2
yes. Thats normal with nitrous. I don't like the baselines because they are screwed up like I said about the n.o.s fuel regulator vac line.
yes. Thats normal with nitrous. I don't like the baselines because they are screwed up like I said about the n.o.s fuel regulator vac line.
Originally posted by 03Lightning
hslightnin
It looks like we are still not on the same page. The AFR went up bacause you are comparing it to a none NO2 run that was unusually ritch. The tuners at Speed Works felt that it was because interfearance from the NO2 fuel pressure modification. What AFR do 4lb chiped trucks show in the same conditons? Also no one has addressed why when the NO2 jets were changed the AFR stayed within .50 and as close as .00 (even) as the increasingly higher shots were used. This couldn't be adaptive strategy could it?
hslightnin
It looks like we are still not on the same page. The AFR went up bacause you are comparing it to a none NO2 run that was unusually ritch. The tuners at Speed Works felt that it was because interfearance from the NO2 fuel pressure modification. What AFR do 4lb chiped trucks show in the same conditons? Also no one has addressed why when the NO2 jets were changed the AFR stayed within .50 and as close as .00 (even) as the increasingly higher shots were used. This couldn't be adaptive strategy could it?
im just asking if that 1% increase is still within limits
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
From: Conway, AR
depends on how much that 1% increase is. It won't be that much with the right shot and the calibration for it. I was pushing what my computer was recalibrated for. I still believe it was a 100-110 shot when my computer was calibrated for a 75. it ran fine with a 75. It also did pretty good with that 100 though. but that 1% was different for each one. I think thats what your talking about correct? nitrous will have that effect.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach
Originally posted by NateTrun2
depends on how much that 1% increase is. It won't be that much with the right shot and the calibration for it. I was pushing what my computer was recalibrated for. I still believe it was a 100-110 shot when my computer was calibrated for a 75. it ran fine with a 75. It also did pretty good with that 100 though. but that 1% was different for each one. I think thats what your talking about correct? nitrous will have that effect.
depends on how much that 1% increase is. It won't be that much with the right shot and the calibration for it. I was pushing what my computer was recalibrated for. I still believe it was a 100-110 shot when my computer was calibrated for a 75. it ran fine with a 75. It also did pretty good with that 100 though. but that 1% was different for each one. I think thats what your talking about correct? nitrous will have that effect.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Central Florida
Originally posted by hslightnin
thats it it looked like it was around 11% w/o and up to 12.5 with the nos is 12.5 a safe number to be at, at high RPM high load?
thats it it looked like it was around 11% w/o and up to 12.5 with the nos is 12.5 a safe number to be at, at high RPM high load?
12.5 is safe. Remember that the A/F measurement device for the dyno is in the tailpipe - which will read a condition as being leaner than it really is. So Nate is even safer than he thinks. Don't tell Nate this but he can run over a 100 shot on that truck.
Those that have been told all along 12 is "lean" need to think about where that information was coming from. i.e. some of the same people that attempted to discredit this very process. So much for that.
A suggestion to those wanting to monitor this sort of thing... purchase an EGT gauge (Exhaust Gas Temperature). I use a Digatron EGT gauge to tune my carbureted setup. Do a search for them on google. If you put it on your vehicle while stock you can get a good baseline for EGT's - if that makes you more comfortable. You of course know the stock egt is way safe so it gives you a frame of reference. I tune my carb setup for 1350 degrees.
Jim
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach
Originally posted by jmimac351
It's actually a ratio, not a percentage.
12.5 is safe. Remember that the A/F measurement device for the dyno is in the tailpipe - which will read a condition as being leaner than it really is. So Nate is even safer than he thinks. Don't tell Nate this but he can run over a 100 shot on that truck.
Those that have been told all along 12 is "lean" need to think about where that information was coming from. i.e. some of the same people that attempted to discredit this very process. So much for that.
A suggestion to those wanting to monitor this sort of thing... purchase an EGT gauge (Exhaust Gas Temperature). I use a Digatron EGT gauge to tune my carbureted setup. Do a search for them on google. If you put it on your vehicle while stock you can get a good baseline for EGT's - if that makes you more comfortable. You of course know the stock egt is way safe so it gives you a frame of reference. I tune my carb setup for 1350 degrees.
Jim
It's actually a ratio, not a percentage.
12.5 is safe. Remember that the A/F measurement device for the dyno is in the tailpipe - which will read a condition as being leaner than it really is. So Nate is even safer than he thinks. Don't tell Nate this but he can run over a 100 shot on that truck.
Those that have been told all along 12 is "lean" need to think about where that information was coming from. i.e. some of the same people that attempted to discredit this very process. So much for that.
A suggestion to those wanting to monitor this sort of thing... purchase an EGT gauge (Exhaust Gas Temperature). I use a Digatron EGT gauge to tune my carbureted setup. Do a search for them on google. If you put it on your vehicle while stock you can get a good baseline for EGT's - if that makes you more comfortable. You of course know the stock egt is way safe so it gives you a frame of reference. I tune my carb setup for 1350 degrees.
Jim
and tail pipes being leaner becouse the cats? good point never thought that
1350 is kinda cold isnt it 1450 is gas 1250 on methinol
been a few years but i think that what i ran
this might sound like a "flame" but its not
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Everyone, do not attempt to tune for maxmimum power safely with an EGT gauge on a FI vehicle. That's NOT safe, or very accurate, by any means. Purchase a real wideband meter. www.fjoinc.com is the best wideband I've ever used.
12.0 to 1 + is about the limit I would have ANY forced induction or any Nitrous equipped vehicle running at, and that's when they are running good octane. You'll be hard pressed to find any high quality tuner push any vehicle higher than that (forced or NOS), regardless if Ford, GM, whatever.
As for these results, I can state that Nate had some good #'s, and although I don't particular care for his slightly lean afr, I will congrat him on the #'s. I do wish the problems with the vacuum issues (or whatever it was) wouldn't have arised, but I'm sure we'll have more testing coming soon from Nate, or others.
12.0 to 1 + is about the limit I would have ANY forced induction or any Nitrous equipped vehicle running at, and that's when they are running good octane. You'll be hard pressed to find any high quality tuner push any vehicle higher than that (forced or NOS), regardless if Ford, GM, whatever.
As for these results, I can state that Nate had some good #'s, and although I don't particular care for his slightly lean afr, I will congrat him on the #'s. I do wish the problems with the vacuum issues (or whatever it was) wouldn't have arised, but I'm sure we'll have more testing coming soon from Nate, or others.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,298
Likes: 1
From: here
Originally posted by Gen2 Lightning
12.0 to 1 + is about the limit I would have ANY forced induction or any Nitrous equipped vehicle running at, and that's when they are running good octane. You'll be hard pressed to find any high quality tuner push any vehicle higher than that (forced or NOS), regardless if Ford, GM, whatever.
12.0 to 1 + is about the limit I would have ANY forced induction or any Nitrous equipped vehicle running at, and that's when they are running good octane. You'll be hard pressed to find any high quality tuner push any vehicle higher than that (forced or NOS), regardless if Ford, GM, whatever.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Originally posted by cyntaxx
I guess FoMoCo didn't do a quality tune on our trucks from the factory then?
I guess FoMoCo didn't do a quality tune on our trucks from the factory then?
As for the a/f, being that I was replying concerning mainly Nate's truck, I should have been more careful when it came to my choice of words. In restating, I wouldn't have any Lightning or Cobra running more than 12.0:1 when modified with higher boost levels than factory, or when using nitrous, regardless of boost level, and I'd honestly prefer 11.5 to 11.8 range.
Last edited by Gen2 Lightning; Jul 10, 2003 at 03:15 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,298
Likes: 1
From: here
Originally posted by Gen2 Lightning
No, they didn't at all. There is a lot to be desired in the factory tune on a Lightning. I've seen 30+ rwhp out of a stock truck with a good tune. The Cobra is even worse when it comes to factory calibration. You'll find 55+ rwtq at 3k rpms on a Cobra with just ONLY a good tune.
No, they didn't at all. There is a lot to be desired in the factory tune on a Lightning. I've seen 30+ rwhp out of a stock truck with a good tune. The Cobra is even worse when it comes to factory calibration. You'll find 55+ rwtq at 3k rpms on a Cobra with just ONLY a good tune.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 3
From: cincinnati, ohio
okay, first off ****, i can have all the input you want, your trying to blow me off, by saying i don't know **** and am being fed.
every question i have asked is from my own experience, i've done plenty of stuff myself, valve bodies, pullies, fastair's,
on my most recent vehicles, over the past 2 month's i've done 2 intakes, carbs, pulled ac systems, put in shift kits, shifters, steering wheels, fabed custom tach's, rewired systems, oh yeah, my bike i've installed on board compressor systems for my air shifter, put on pipe's, programmers, modified undertails to custom fit my stretched bike, the list goes on, so blow off
i haven't even read all the last few pages of b,s, because all i needed to see was the dyno sheets to confirm exactly what i said before, the n/a program made less hp than he made b4, just like i said he would, nate claimed it felt so much stronger, bottom line, it would have run slower at the track. just like i said, to compensate for the no2, the program, or i'm sorry "calibration" woulud be pig rich without no2, what is it, 10.9? jesus, that is so friggin fat it's ridiculous, especially if your saying that 12.4 on a "cal'd" pcm is safe.
why isn't it 12.4 without the juice to make more power, it's simple, if it was setup to achieve a 12.4 without the n02, he'd be runing about a 13.9 a/f with the nitrous and bye bye motor, just like i said,
i enjoy how everyone started making excuses b4 the dyno sheets were seen, weather, vacuum, bla bla,
bottom line, i called it just like it happened, fat as hell and probably safe on the timing end too, that's why the power is how it is
p.s. nate, i'm glad your happy but you'd be much happier with a "properly tuned" flip chip to get the most out of your truck.
have fun
every question i have asked is from my own experience, i've done plenty of stuff myself, valve bodies, pullies, fastair's,
on my most recent vehicles, over the past 2 month's i've done 2 intakes, carbs, pulled ac systems, put in shift kits, shifters, steering wheels, fabed custom tach's, rewired systems, oh yeah, my bike i've installed on board compressor systems for my air shifter, put on pipe's, programmers, modified undertails to custom fit my stretched bike, the list goes on, so blow off
i haven't even read all the last few pages of b,s, because all i needed to see was the dyno sheets to confirm exactly what i said before, the n/a program made less hp than he made b4, just like i said he would, nate claimed it felt so much stronger, bottom line, it would have run slower at the track. just like i said, to compensate for the no2, the program, or i'm sorry "calibration" woulud be pig rich without no2, what is it, 10.9? jesus, that is so friggin fat it's ridiculous, especially if your saying that 12.4 on a "cal'd" pcm is safe.
why isn't it 12.4 without the juice to make more power, it's simple, if it was setup to achieve a 12.4 without the n02, he'd be runing about a 13.9 a/f with the nitrous and bye bye motor, just like i said,
i enjoy how everyone started making excuses b4 the dyno sheets were seen, weather, vacuum, bla bla,
bottom line, i called it just like it happened, fat as hell and probably safe on the timing end too, that's why the power is how it is
p.s. nate, i'm glad your happy but you'd be much happier with a "properly tuned" flip chip to get the most out of your truck.
have fun
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 3
From: cincinnati, ohio
and another point, if you want an accurate reading, i would suggest going to jegs and picking up a bung to weld into your exhaust,
that way you can make "sure" what your a/f is. to guess it is safer than 12.4 because of cat's is crazy.
like i said earlier people need to be "in tune" with their trucks.
don't leave anything to chance, it's not worth the cost of a new engine.
also, the track will put a bit more load on the truck than the street, so it may even run leaner at the track.
i would suggest some mach 1 accelerator or 100 octane unleaded when running the track with the nitrous.
honestly nate, i am telling you this to save you a motor.
that way you can make "sure" what your a/f is. to guess it is safer than 12.4 because of cat's is crazy.
like i said earlier people need to be "in tune" with their trucks.
don't leave anything to chance, it's not worth the cost of a new engine.
also, the track will put a bit more load on the truck than the street, so it may even run leaner at the track.
i would suggest some mach 1 accelerator or 100 octane unleaded when running the track with the nitrous.
honestly nate, i am telling you this to save you a motor.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 3
From: cincinnati, ohio
Originally posted by 03Lightning
Grey03
I would like to see you take your tuner chip and add 4lb of bost, then run it, add an additional 55 hp shot of NO2 and run it, then put on a 75 shot of NO2 and run it, then put on a 100 shot of NO2 and run it ON THE SAME PROGRAM!
Grey03
I would like to see you take your tuner chip and add 4lb of bost, then run it, add an additional 55 hp shot of NO2 and run it, then put on a 75 shot of NO2 and run it, then put on a 100 shot of NO2 and run it ON THE SAME PROGRAM!