Cood bee . That and I was a bad student, no joke. But I had already confessed to that earlier.

 

Ok, so could you please tell my why these Unions were Excluded from the Bill? I don't believe in Coincedence.

I'm not saying EVERY Firefighter and Policeman supported this guy. They're coming out Against him now.

They should be careful though, as their Union will be on the chopping block next.

I've said it before, the big issue is not the concessions. I think everyone has accepted cuts need to be made. I Agree!

A Politician making it illegal to Collectively Bargain is the Real issue here...

 

Yeah, right. You missed ars (should be ****). Also, I seem to recall another post where used sight when it should have been cite.

 

The reason Wisconsin needs to make it illegal for the government unions to collective bargain is because if they don't, the next time a Democratic governor and legislature are voted in, they will give away the farm to the unions who donate to Democrat campaigns. The state will be worse off than ever before.

IMO, there are several reasons why public safety unions were excluded. The main reason is political. Public safety is a hot button issue that would be exploited by the media and the governor's opponents, and could jeapordize getting the bill through.

If police and firefighters were included, the airways would be inundated with ads about how the Governor wants to let gangbangers rob you and set your house on fire. So, yes, it's a calculated political compromise. Shocking, but not exactly a pay off.

 

The ones that have been there forever aren't making $75 an hour either though.

The GOP has been working for the past 30 years to destroy this country from Reagan on.

 

How many times do I need to post it ?
They cannot strike, from the inception of the union, any real ability to push for what they want in collective bargaining was neutered.
The union is a lobbying group at it's basis, and sources a pension system for them ( same as your company providing a pension or 401(k) ).
The pay is per city ( not state wide collective bargaining ) and if they are told no, that is it. Same as if your boss or HR dept tells you no to a raise.

15 cities total in WI, not every district like teachers or state wide like state employees.

They can target the union, but that is similar to your boss targeting you for collective bargaining. They have zero pull or any kind of teeth to work with.
Teachers or state employees, they can strike and hold the tax payers hostage to get what they want, they have some teeth to the collective bargaining.

Actually you posted did post the unions. I guess unions could be just 1 of each from Milwaukee, but you make it seem as if the there is a state union, and they are bleeding the taxpayers dry.

You post opinion as fact, just like calling the Firefighter & Police unions with a healthy Pension. Sure it is, that is why the city I live in has the police union calling looking for donations, just because it is that healthy.

Nice to see you changed it to " think everyone has accepted cuts need to be made" , but I still have the question on this, where did you pull this from ?
You had at least 15 cities being left out due to a back room deal, is this more of your reading the real facts and making an opinion ( presented as the facts ).

You seem to think saving 30 M now, and 100 Mil over a few years is not the answer, but to save, you have to start some where.
If you were spending more than you make, would cutting out stopping at Dunkin Donuts for a 2.25 cup of coffee be a good place to start, or is that just silly ?

 

Where do you get this from ?

Toyota as the company is today was founded in 1937, prior to that it was part of another company. That makes GM 29 years older.

The cost could have to do with Toyota Motor Corp has 71K employees and 228 B in revenue, and GM has over 200K employees with 98 B in revenue.
Something is wrong, almost 3x the employees to make ~50% of the revenue.

So the big 3 have a cost basis of $75.00 per hour to manufacture a car, due to the unions. The topic being the unions, not the individual members. I will say over 60K /yr to pull parts is a bit out of line ( that is a real wage number for someone that was working at the part dist center in the suburbs of Chicago ).
10 + years ago, GM was called a pension fund masquerading as a car manufacture. The problem was known back then.

Yes, it was the GOP that screwed the general population out of their investment from their GM stock, and those that had money in the GM bonds, in favor of keeping the UAW whole, wait no it was not them........

Democrats are doing just as good of a job supporting their backers ( UAW ), and running the country into the ground.

 

Maybe you should do some research yourself, starting here. Toyota has at least three US plants.

 

Yes Toyota has been around a long time but they have not made cars in the US all that long. Pensions and health care are paid by the Japanese Government so it is not an expense that hits Toyota for its Japan based workers. I believe Toyota has made cars here for about 15 years or so. Thus they have few retirees and legacy expenses. See where they are in another 20-30 years and the playing field will level out.

 

Yes I know they have US based factories but they have been in operation for about 15 years max. The Big 3 have had factories here for 100 years.

The greatest expense for GM is legacy costs. They pay more for retirees than actual employees. Wait until more time passes and Toyota will have similar issues.

 

Did you forget to put you in there somewhere Lady? I left ars in there for a reason as well. Instead of singling me out on the grammar lessons, why don't you go back through this thread, check and correct your compatriots grammar (it's obvious who you are siding with in the whole argument, Hibbs and K-mack), and get back to me. I'm sure you'll find a few more mistakes in their posts than mine, well maybe. I certainly can recall a few, I just never bothered to call them out on it, seemed pointless, and I understood what they were saying anyhooo, unfortunately. I never claimed to be perfect, and it's obvious I'm not, but neither are you, hehe

Keep up the good work teacher, I am learning..... more than I did in school

 

Well HEEEEEELLLLLLLOOOOOOO! Isn't that what the gov in Wisconson is trying to avoid, runaway legacy costs? Looks like you are fighting with yourself.

 

Almost right. Japan is a 3 part system, very similar to the US.

Companies supply beyond the basic national pension system ( the equivalent US Social Security system ).

Very similar to the US, companies in Japan pay towards the national pension system ( in US terms, employer pays 6.2, and it was 6.2 for the employee until this year ) and then amend it with a company pension.

~ 90% of Japan's companies supplied a pension payment ( some times lump sum, others monthly payments ).

Seems Toyota has the long term pay out for employees.

I will say, Toyota should have about 30% of the people to pay a pension to, but I would say this is not very little when compared to the big 3.

 

Look I agree that these costs are bloated. I agree they need scaled back but where I have a problem is the government stepping in and saying you can't collectively bargain. The teachers unions have acknowledged they need to take concessions.

The government doesn't have the right to step in and take people's rights away. The GOP seems to want to take our rights away at every turn or so it seems to me.

Now I know this will stir up those on Obamacare as it is affectionately known. I'll gladly concede the forced coverage mandate but I want to take away the responsibility for ERs and physicians to have accept patients that can't pay. If someone opts out of insurance and has an unpaid bill more than say 90 days treat it like unpaid casino markers are in Vegas and make it a crime and jail them. Medical costs are so high because of those without insurance and stiff the doctors and hospitals.

Off my soapbox.

The states made these commitments to these teachers and then are wanting to change the rules mid game. Same way as GM...I'm not saying these pensions aren't ridiculous but that was the deal they made.

What would you do if your mortgage company sent you a letter saying that money costs them more so your fixed rate mortgage was doubling in rate and your payment is skyrocketing?

Same difference. They have a contract that says x and now overpaid legislatures are pulling the plug on it.

 

Let me see... You = 6 mistakes. Me = 1 mistake (not bad considering I have ADD and Dyslexia).

Right.


Then again, maybe not. Unless someone tells you, I doubt you could even tell me the punctuation error in the quote snip above.

You = 6 mistakes. Me = 1 mistake.