Thank you for the calm and insightful post (compared to your last) and I will take back the butt head comment I threw at you

I know nothing of Edwards (or is it Edward) Deming but maybe I'll have to check it out.

I will have to just disagree with you there as Ford has been putting out significantly better products for the last several years and that just doesn't happen overnight. I would say that is just my opinion, but it is apparently the rest of the worlds as well, again they have surpassed toyota as #1 in car quality, a title that toyota held for years. Of course, I have no idea who comes up with this stuff, but it is Ford they're talking about so I'll stick by that (for now)

I'm pretty sure the people who make the components and supplies belong to the UAW, but I have no Idea about the head designers, so like you I stated as much in my original post to cover my butt

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I can't believe I'm saying this buuut.. I agree with you 100% there. I've always said that congressmen (and women), senators and governors should take a pay cut, but they never do, you only ever see them voting on pay raises for themselves. And they don't even pay into S.S. Wish I had a job where I could give myself a pay raise, and I'm not talking about self-employment, they have bosses... the american public. Wait, I know, I'll become a senator or a congressman

 

If you simply made the house and senate volunteer positions, you could save almost $100 million a year. That doesn't even count their ridiculous travel expenses, meals, benefits, etc.

If they can afford to spend millions to get a job that pays $175k a year then they can do in for free too. Plus how many Americans make $175k a year anyway?

I do applaud the Tea Party for breaking rank with their leaders on that half billion dollar jet engine. When the Secretary of Defense doesn't want it, why force it on them? Of course teary eyed Boehner wanted it still. Got to bring the pork home!

I see the cuts to all of the domestic programs and clean water initiatives but at the end of the day they are small potatoes and hurt more than they help.

If you cut spending on education, it hits the states that still have to fund the locals. It just seems misguided.

 

Eyeblast.TV-CBS Host's False Attack on Wisconsin Governor Falls Flat


I do not believe that government or private unions should have the right to say employees must join as a condition of employment because it is in their best interest to do so. People should have the right to individually bargain if they so choose and they know the good and bad in that.

 

You keep mentioning the firefighters and police Hibbs, and I don't know how it works in Wisconsin, but in my county I know for a fact that our F.F. (I have one that lives across the street from me and we have become close friends) don't make nearly the kind of money that the teachers, snowplow drivers and all the other county employees do, so the benefits that they get are pretty important to them, and probably even more so than the others mentioned. And since you sight snowplow drivers, with as bad a job that they do on our streets, they should fire the lot of them anyway, but they won't since a lot of them have been employed by the county forever. As for the state and county police, I can't really comment on that as I have no idea what goes on there.

And before you go spitting crap out of your computer they way you do, have
you seen the Wisconsin budget plan? Do know where the money is being allocated? Because you sure sound like you do. I know for a fact what our county budget is since we get a yearly budget plan in the mail, and we know exactly where the money goes, and here's one example for you: 63% of the county budget goes to education, 63%, leaving 37% for the rest of the county's needs, street repairs, police, fire and rescue and the list goes on. I can't say as to what our state's budget is as we don't get the annual report in the mail, but I'm sure I could get it if requested, I simply choose not to see it as I am sure it would cause me to blow chunks.

Well, I don't feel as though you have even answered that question Mr. know-it- all, so how about the other one. Don't even care to touch it do you?

 

And I did not realize that the 14 senators who cut and ran out on the state were all democrats. I don't want to say typical, buuut...., I know if I did that on any job I ever had, I would have been fired on the spot. Nice way to hold up progress during the state's budget short fall, way to go dumbocrats!!

 

Wow, this is old news.

Seriously Mitch, if you want to engage in an Educated discussion, do some homework and learn the facts. Unlike some, I don't just Make up stuff.

Sounds like you are just following the sheep and believing in what they Tell you to believe it. I choose to review the facts of a situation and make my decision.

I'll do your homework for you again. Here's the Budget Plan. If you think Teacher's are 67% of their problems you are Strongly mistaken...

http://www.doa.state.wi.us/debf/execbudget.asp

 

Hey Hibbs you obviously haven't been reading. Where did I state that the teachers were 67% of Wisconsin's problems. Your gonna have to do alot more homework than that, you may stay after class Mr. Hibbs. baaaa baaaa

 

Who's the sheep? So, when you say:

are you implying that a majority of the police and firefighters supported Walker, or are you believing what the main stream media is telling you?


The homework that you did for someone else is relevent to this discussion how? We're talking about the former governor Jim Doyle?

Can you be a little more specific and show us where it is in Jim Doyle's 2009-2011 executive budget your point is proven? I'd find it myself, but I've got a life to attend to.

 

And here's another one Hibbs:


Sounds pretty made up to me, you really still haven't presented the facts to back that one up, and why? Because that is your opinion and not a fact, as are alot of the statements on here, including some of my own, just sayin'

 

It's the only way they can prevent a vote from happening. Same way as the Repubs filibuster everything that comes to vote in the Senate.

 

EXACTLY! Why is it fair to say that in order to work at a place that you MUST join the union. I hate unions and everything to do with them, yet I still have to pay 25 bucks a month to a union that has never done anything for me nor will it ever. In fact I have not talked to anyone from the union the entire time ive been there or even seen any of them.

So why cant I have the option not to join? I dont see how its fair for them to mandate it yet government cant have a say in unions. Its crap

And by the way, unions are a major contributor to the down fall of the auto industry in Detroit. People making 75 bucks an hour for putting a screw in on the assembly line and if they didnt agree to these terms then all the workers will strike and the plant will no longer have any production so the companies had no choice but to agree with the terms. And in order for workers to make those wages they had to increase the price of their products and now the Japs do it for cheaper and make a cheaper product so people will now buy a Toyota because its cheaper than a car made with union supplied parts. So the auto companies had no choice but to lay people off.

Theres a quote that goes something like this "Unionized workplaces are the first step to communism" And that story is just one of the few that proves it.

 

When u look at the benefits that government workers get over non government u can see why they would not want things to change. To start with they get paid on average $7 an hour more, they get more sick days, more paid vacation & better 401k!! This is all at the tax payers expense & its about time something was done about it!! Perhaps they would all just prefer to get canned!!!

 

I love the people preaching for smaller government by saying "government should have no choice in this matter, they should have no say in unions or what people make. And they make more than we do and should have a salary cut"

How many of you saying this stuff voted the Obama administration into office? Because thats exactly what he is all about. Bigger government.

He put a pay raise in many sections of the government. The amount of people making over 100 grand a year nearly doubled in the year 2009 from the previous year. And that is true, I have the article somewhere but it has been awhile since it was wrote in USA today. So I probably cant find it.

So if you want smaller government then you better quit voting communism big government candidates into office.


It just proves it by Obamacare. There is Obama stepping in to tell everyone what we need, thats a sign of communism. Stepping in and telling someone what they MUST do or there will be fines and penalties.

I dont know about you but I dont like government stepping in to tell me what I NEED to do and what they think is right for me. And this is why I do not vote for communistic presidents like Obama. So if you in fact voted for him and you are in here complaining about how government is to big and makes to much money, shouldn't have a say in this or a say in that. Then you can thank yourself for this, because you had a hand in voting exactly that into office. Just take a look at the EPA's budget as an example. One of the first things Obama did when he took office was change their budget from roughly 7 billion a year to 10 billion a year. Now what changed in this period in time where the EPA needs another 3 billion a year? He also doubled the ammount of close government employees making 100 grand a year. And by close I mean ones in DC not ones that are working for the post office. All the while only increasing the pay scale of the Military by 1%. He is all about himself and his friends in making it big. He has done nothing but spend more money on things we dont need while making his buddys more rich. And his anti Military personality pisses me off. IMO it should be a requirment that you serve in the Military before you can become President. Why would we give you control of the most powerfull Military in the entire world if you yourself has no actual experience in it?

Im not saying McCain would have been any better but dont you think its about time that we as Americans came to agreement on something and voted a small independent into office?

 

63% - 67%, close enough.
Problem - 'where the money goes', same thing, isn't it ?
County - state , they should be close to be the same, why split hairs ?

Another round of calling the NRA the same thing as the teacher's union would fit here nicely, considering the "facts" being spewed.

It just sounds good to the point being presented as fact, considering how little pull the police & Fire unions ( if the city is even part of one ) have over collective bargaining.
They cannot strike, the national union has no say over pay or promotions ( that city / county police & fire compensation boards ), nor how the hours are scheduled.

The support for a gov was in exchange for not including what in the collective bargaining process, not asking for a raise and being told no ? Not asking for hours to be paid out per federal regulations ( 45 hr - 35 hr work weeks all paid out as 80 hours straight rate, where the private sector would be 75 hours at straight, and 5 hours of OT, same as getting paid for 82.5 hours, not 80 ).
Yes that is one dangerous union there, less pull than a citizen working in the private sector, and they get the fun part of standing between a thug with a gun and a citizen.
Sounds a lot like the police & fire unions were neutered as far as the collective bargaining process goes right from the start.
How about all state employees have the same collective bargaining process as fire & police, oh wait that is what is going on now.....

 

The Firefighter and Police Unions Bought Advertisement Supporting Walker. The Union Leaders were IN the advertisements. They contributed Money to his Campaign. The group Officially Endorsed Walker!

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/105355568.html

This isn't "what main stream Media is telling me", this is as Fact.

Sorry for the typo, 63% not 67% is what you stated. My Error. Does it really change anything??

The budget shows where the Money has been going, It's the 2009 to 2011 Budget. It also talks about the misses and deficit's expected going forward... The budget clearly demonstrates what a small portion Education Is in overall... The 2012 plan obviously isn't out yet. You guys are funny.