Hey they are helping our economy down here!

We'll gladly take good care of them!!!

 

Are you a conspriracy theorists? Unions have become less popular because their needs had been met. They did what they were formed to do. Beyond that they cost the consumers and taxpayers money it doesn't need to cost them.

If you don't hear peope complaining about the money and benefits that lawmakers make, you aren't paying attention. They are public sector employee and are part of what is costing the taxpayers in this country too much money.

I can't say for sure what the goal of the GOP is. The best I can see though is that what they are trying to do, at least now, in contrast to the democrats, is reduce government to acceptable levels and reign in the extraordinary spending that this government has done for too long. I'm not a republican but know many. The ones that I know aren't CEO's or Wall St. bankers. They are middle class working peope who believe that our government should practice fiscal responsibility with our tax dollars like we have to with our house hold income.

You might want to take a closer look at who the CEO's and Wall St. banker are. See what political party they support with their dollars. We are led to believe, by the progresive left, that it's all republicans who occupy CEO positions and Wall St. positions. That isn't true, but the truth doesn't matter, especially in a place like Wisconsin where there is a rebirth of the progressive movement, when the objective is to decieve the American public.

 

Where are all these teachers working with only working 6 hours a day and great bennifits?

My wife is the team leader of the biology team(15 teachers) and also teaches 3 levels of biology, "stupid", "less stupid", college level. She works typically 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, to which she comes home, eats, then works until 9-10pm. She also works on the weekends, AND during the summer developing new lesson plans. She gets 5 sick/vacation days a year. To top it off I personally spend $1000's of dollars every year for her classroom to have supplys. Her health benifits are a complete joke. It's cheaper and she gets better coverage paying the extra money to be on my plan at work.

Lets not forget the little *****s she teaches have no parent involvement, and it's not uncommon for some of them to be COURT ORDERD to attend school.

All for a whopping 48k a year.

Why does she do it? Because every year she has a few kids that come to her and thank her for changing their lives. There are a few kids that have went to college now because of her.

Please try and tell me she is underpaid for having a master in biology.....

 

Again, what's happening in Wisconsin isn't exclusively about teachers. I don't agree that teachers don't work hard. It's a different structure than many of us work in, but I believe that good teachers do work hard. I have a lot of respect for law enforcemnt, and all public safety employees, but when a state is drowning in debt something has to be done. The public sector employees in Wisconsin, and beyond, are protesting having to make concessions for the "greater good".

In the private sector, as most of us know, if you don't like the conditions that we work under, we get a different job somewhere else. In the public sector, and under many different unions, if employees don't like the conditions they work under they can negotiate better conditions. Now, "better conditions" is a subjective term. To most of us private sector employees, paying 5% into our pension (if we were lucky enough to have a pension) and 12% of our health inurance would be pretty damn good. More than two weeks paid vacation a year, which would include sick days, would be very damn good.

Though the progressive left portrays conservatives as mind numbed robots following a central leader, this thread proves otherwise. There are conservatives taking part in this thead who don't fall in line on train of thought. I do believe that public sector and private sector unioned employees do work hard for the most part. It's just that their advantages over the private sector are at the expense OF the private sector. Still, they protest.

 

All of the public servant / employee union pissing and moaning as of late really ticks me off. Why is that? Because the unions and the people they represent seem to have forgotten about the basic laws of supply and demand, survival of the fittest and the normal distribution. Those of us that work in the public sector have had to live and die by those laws for years. Let’s see how this works on both sides of the house though.

In the private sector, “growing a business” generally means increasing revenues to the point where one can hire more people. How do you know how many people you can hire? It’s real simple. You can hire only as many people as you can afford to based on how much you can charge your customers. Charge your customers too much and they stop buying or go someplace else for their goods and services.

As private businesses grow though, they’re constantly weeding out poorer performing employees in order to retain and reward their best employees – who in turn make the business even stronger. Yes, this means that even in the best of times, there is some “forced turnover” in the private sector – and for some very compelling reasons.

When external events (such as the recent economic collapse) step in, strange things happen. For instance, folks “tighten their belts” and stop buying anything other than what they really need. This leads to some businesses seeing a real drop in income. Unless they have a ton of money in the bank they’re willing to use to pay their employees, most private sector companies end up laying people off. Sad, but true. This also follows the basic law of nature – survival of the fittest. Only the fittest companies (and employees within those companies) will survive. Is it fun to watch? No, but its better in the long run.

Now let’s look at the public sector. First of all, is it a business? We’ll sort of. The government is supposed to provide certain services to the public. So is growing this business good? Well, as long as you’re providing services your customers want at a cost they’re willing to pay. But interestingly enough, these customers don’t really have too many choices in what they pay, because they are pretty much forced to pay – through their taxes.

This is where the unions have screwed up two key points. First, they’ve assumed that all of the jobs they’ve added over the years are required. I can tell you that in the state I live in, folks are literally fleeing the state in droves due to high taxes – used in part to pay those public employees. So when you have fewer customers, you need fewer – or less highly compensated – employees. So this is one way the law of supply and demand does work in the public sector. But how do those left behind continue to pay higher and higher taxes to fund all of this folly? Well, some of them are starting to revolt and you will see some public entities actually go bankrupt in the next few years. The unions know what that will mean. (Sound of Batman announcer saying “Curtains.”)

So what is it that grants public employees immunity from the laws of supply and demand and survival of the fittest? Well, they’re public employees providing critical functions aren’t they? Sure, some of them are. There are also private sector employees providing critical functions too. We lost some of them and still found a way to survive didn’t we? You’ll have a tough time convincing me that each and every public employee is essential. In fact you’ll never win that one. The sad truth is something – or somebody – simply has to give.

The second way the unions have failed is the whole concept of collective bargaining. Part of this wonderful process allows the union to speak for all union employees. And here the union has ignored the concept of “normal distribution.” This is the classic bell shaped curve with (in this case) some bad employees at one end, lots of average employees in the middle and a few really good employees at the other end. With a union though, there are no really good or bad employees. They’re all equal – and apparently all worth keeping according to the unions. I’m sorry folks, the normal distribution does apply here and there are bad employees that deserve to lose their jobs – even in the best of times. Too bad that due to union practices, some good people will lose their jobs that truly shouldn’t have.

I do truly feel sorry for those union employees at the “good” end of the bell shaped curve. The union doesn’t value them – except to make idols out of them at times like these. To say that these folks mirror the whole population though is simply ridiculous – and sad. Some of these folks will lose their jobs when the inevitable cuts come. That will be the ultimate slap in the face for all involved.

 

You guys see the Hitler and **** signs at this union backed protest.....you probably haven't if you have been watching ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN or MSNBC. Imagine if this was a Tea Party backed Protest, the media would be branding the movement as full of racist 24/7. Oh wait they already have...

 

So why aren't the fire fighters and police Unions included in this Bill? Talk about a healthy Pension. Oh yea. The vote Republican.

THIS is Big government.

 

The teacher's retirement system in Texas is statewide, so I assure you your sister qualifies for the exact same program.

AND BEING ABLE TO OPT-OUT OF SOCIAL SECURITY IS A HUGE BENEFIT!!!! DO YOU HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD LITERALLY KILL TO GET OUT OF THAT DISTASEROUS PROGRAM???!!!

Actually, what typically happens in Texas is that many teachers retire as soon as they can in their 50's, then go to work for another 10 years in the private sector where they then earn their Social Security benefits, so they're essentially "double-dipping" the two programs.

TALK ABOUT A RACKET!!!!

 

You sound jealous.

 

First off the union's need hasn't gone away, rather people have been conned into believing they don't need them. Since the 1980's, real wages have been falling in our country. This coincides with the fall of unions.

Historically every generation has lived better than their parents throughout our history but that hasn't held true from the 1980's forward. Sure there are some that have profited handsomely but there are a greater number that have suffered significantly from then on. It is a matter of enriching a few at the expense of the rest.

I certainly am not saying that all conservatives/GOPers/Teabaggies/Republicans are rich CEOs. What I am saying is that the masses have been deceived by the few rich people (like the Koch brothers) and are falling into their trap.

Don't you think it is strange that Wall St. is putting up huge numbers but the average American isn't reaping the benefits of this?

I am sure guys like the Koch brothers are doing pretty good despite the rough times in our country!

 

No that would be pointed at one of the many reasons the government is going broke, due to a broken system. Double paying someone is a small problem.

Then again the government does this all over the place, Military is a big one. People put in their time, and retire on a pension.
Good for them, they deserve to be taken care of for protecting the country.
Bad part, they come back as contractor, and get paid the same rate they were getting paid when they left, so the gov is really 2x paying for a position.

Wonder why your taxes are so high, and get average, at best, service from them ? Here is one of the many reasons.

The SS part, think you are missing something, do teachers pay into SS ? You make it sound as if they are getting screwed out of something that is due to them ( getting SS without paying in ).
Teachers ( in IL at least ) get the same raises the working union members get, where SS get squat if anything for a cost of living increase.
Add to this, the medical teachers get with the pension is generally much better than what Medicare is, and they do not have to pay for it ( Part of the Medicare parts are taken out of the SS pay in IL, not sure how other states manage the federal program ).

There are plenty of other fields that have to take continuing education courses, and some of those private sector people have to foot the entire bill themselves.
Insurance people have this requirement in IL ( other states, got me ), and his includes the customer service rep you might talk to on the phone, and they do not have 3 months off to do this.
Your post makes it seem as if teachers are singled out for this, and almost as if it is 3 straight months of school ( where in IL it is something like 180 hours every 5 years, and this is not credit hours, an 8 hour approved conference counts as 8 hours, and are usually union sponsored trips to FL or the likes where they do 2.5 days of conferences and get another 2 days of screwing off paid for. ).

Could it be your sister is still teaching, to get the pay up, so the pension pays out at a higher rate ?

Seems as if TX is the same as IL in terms of the teacher's union.

 

No -- irritated at what a scam the whole arrangement is......

 

Speaking of scams, ever hear of 'air time'?

I just heard of it yesterday, though it looks like I've been paying for it for awhile.

What's "air time?" you ask. Well, basically it is when a government employee can pay a one time fee, and increase their pension as if they have worked five years longer than they actually worked.

Don't know if this is just a California thing, or if it happens in other states, too.


http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/201...ir-time/75711/

 

Sure IL has it too, if they do, they hide it like nobody's business ( IL is good for hiding stuff like this, what can you expect from a blue state ).

Easy fix for this, they cannot purchase the air-time until they file for retirement.
This would make them able to retire at 15 yrs of service vs 20 ( or 25 instead of 25, etc ), and then the actuary could calculate the amount correctly. My guess everybody purchases it at 5 years and 1 day of service.

 

Nice to see your MBA is serving you well still.....
Your emoticon of confused was a good one to use with this quote :



Considering where you live, I do not see how you can claim the fall of unions...that is a bit confusing.

This must be from your MBA professors or just your opinion, numbers show just the opposite




What trap is this ? You make it sound like common knowledge, but do not offer even a hint of what you mean by this.

Good to see you stopped claiming record profits ( which they were not ) , but can you qualify "huge numbers" ?