Whippled Lightning
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From: MD
Originally Posted by KBELL
1. Of all the Lightning superchargers sold since introduction in 12/’03, our records show 44 failures from rotor to case contact. All were warrantied. The total number sold is confidential. There have been only 4 warranties in the last 6-1/2 months. All were the “old style.” The threads you see about KB’s “locking up” are not the new redesigned case. The good news is no reported failures with the new design, so it appears we’ve solved the problem. So, I think I’ll disagree when you say we STILL have a problem.
2. Contrary to what you may have heard, we recognized the issues with the case and did, in fact, re-design it - twice. Yes, we should have got it 100% the first time, but we didn’t. For one, we screwed up and didn’t foresee the effect of the “hot air” kits. I agree, Kenne Bell may not make 90% of the inlet “hot air” kit suppliers happy, but making them love us was never one of my priorities. Instead, I must do and recommend - as any manufacturer does - what I believe to be in the best interest of Kenne Bell products and customers. To a few, it may sound like we’re making excuses, but to us, it’s both a recommendation and a warning. And I don’t care what other supercharger manufacturers recommend or don’t recommend for inlet kits. All supercharger companies list a maximum recommended rpm. Kenne Bell is not unique here - or hiding anything. To the best of my knowledge, I don’t recall us ever stating you can’t use a cam with our superchargers. We don’t care what cam - mild or hot - the customer uses. Just don’t over rev the supercharger.
You raise some other good but technically complex issues on Kenne Bell vs. Eaton cases, discharge temp, etc. that are beyond the scope of this text and probably not all that interesting to everyone. However, if you would like to discuss them further, feel free to give me a call.
Jim Bell
2. Contrary to what you may have heard, we recognized the issues with the case and did, in fact, re-design it - twice. Yes, we should have got it 100% the first time, but we didn’t. For one, we screwed up and didn’t foresee the effect of the “hot air” kits. I agree, Kenne Bell may not make 90% of the inlet “hot air” kit suppliers happy, but making them love us was never one of my priorities. Instead, I must do and recommend - as any manufacturer does - what I believe to be in the best interest of Kenne Bell products and customers. To a few, it may sound like we’re making excuses, but to us, it’s both a recommendation and a warning. And I don’t care what other supercharger manufacturers recommend or don’t recommend for inlet kits. All supercharger companies list a maximum recommended rpm. Kenne Bell is not unique here - or hiding anything. To the best of my knowledge, I don’t recall us ever stating you can’t use a cam with our superchargers. We don’t care what cam - mild or hot - the customer uses. Just don’t over rev the supercharger.
You raise some other good but technically complex issues on Kenne Bell vs. Eaton cases, discharge temp, etc. that are beyond the scope of this text and probably not all that interesting to everyone. However, if you would like to discuss them further, feel free to give me a call.
Jim Bell
I appreciate your response and honesty
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Bahrain
Originally Posted by WaveBlaster785
The cam comment was in reference to you stating they clattered at idle with some cams.
I appreciate your response and honesty
I appreciate your response and honesty
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by KBELL
.....so we recommend it and warranty kits with the JLP or the stock air box. Our customers should be aware that Kenne Bell hasn’t yet declined to warranty anyone’s supercharger because of a “hot air” kit. We have no way of knowing what kind of system our customers run, but the temperature can be determined. We ARE making an honest attempt to convince Lightning owners that COOL AIR is better than HOT AIR for any supercharger including ours. The Airaid System looks good for cool air flow but appears to lack the auxiliary air hose of the JLP kit and therefore could not supply enough air to feed your high HP Lightnings.
Jim Bell
Jim Bell
Some of the other kits including JLP have hoses leading to the outside air which serve to mix the outside (and marginally cooler at times) air with the hot underhood air that the box is drawing in. Then, besides the stock airbox and maybe Volant, aren't they all "hot air" boxes with a few of them some having auxillary cool air hoses to mix with (and subsequently cool off) the hot underhood air? That doesn't seem like it should be enough to make the difference between rotor/case contact or not? Is this problem basically a resolved issue?
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kb tells you no filter kits or you void your warranty.
magnum tells you to use a filter kit.
can't wait to see what the Whipple kit says.
(You see the size of the filter they supplied? That intake (Plastic elbow and all) was supplied as part of the kit. KB's are $3k and they don't let you use a filter? I haven't seen one yet that has not had a 'CAI' on it
If you ask me......something as simple as using a filter kit is all it takes to wreck a blower.....it's poorly designed. I don't care how much power it makes.
I wonder how much of a difference the intake temps are between say us guys up here in New England, or say the upper midwest.........and say guys down in texas or arizona.
In my video I made sure to show the 109 degrees on the temp/compass, however I found out today mine is off -3 degrees, figure in the video his truck should have been seeing 115 degree IAT's at the best
I would think if i was running an open air cleaner during one of our hotter days.......85ish...........
the temp would be somewhat close to a guy down in the south with even a stock kit........where it's 95ish.
Wouldn't you say the stock plastic filter case , maf and boot retain some heat so even if it is not sucking heat right off the engine, it's still getting warm???
And not to mention if it can flow enough air for a KB at 16 lbs
I'm sure someone has data logged this at some point?
My IAT's were 114 to 140 with my Airraid on a 110 degree day. 114 on the freeway 140 in traffic.
magnum tells you to use a filter kit.
can't wait to see what the Whipple kit says.
(You see the size of the filter they supplied? That intake (Plastic elbow and all) was supplied as part of the kit. KB's are $3k and they don't let you use a filter? I haven't seen one yet that has not had a 'CAI' on it
If you ask me......something as simple as using a filter kit is all it takes to wreck a blower.....it's poorly designed. I don't care how much power it makes.
I wonder how much of a difference the intake temps are between say us guys up here in New England, or say the upper midwest.........and say guys down in texas or arizona.
In my video I made sure to show the 109 degrees on the temp/compass, however I found out today mine is off -3 degrees, figure in the video his truck should have been seeing 115 degree IAT's at the best
I would think if i was running an open air cleaner during one of our hotter days.......85ish...........
the temp would be somewhat close to a guy down in the south with even a stock kit........where it's 95ish.
Wouldn't you say the stock plastic filter case , maf and boot retain some heat so even if it is not sucking heat right off the engine, it's still getting warm???
And not to mention if it can flow enough air for a KB at 16 lbs
I'm sure someone has data logged this at some point?
My IAT's were 114 to 140 with my Airraid on a 110 degree day. 114 on the freeway 140 in traffic.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by NorCalLightning
Sorry to change the topic on you guys 
Where the heck are the dyno #'s on the Whipple? Sorry, I'm a very impatient individual.
Hell, I know of someone who would have had the blower on and dyno'd the day after he got one (**cough** camcojb **cough**). And this person was originally #1 in line to get one and do a back to back KB/Whipple dyno comparison. Too bad Whipple dropped the ball and he didn't get one.
So, my question is, what's the delay with the dyno?
Steve
Where the heck are the dyno #'s on the Whipple? Sorry, I'm a very impatient individual. Hell, I know of someone who would have had the blower on and dyno'd the day after he got one (**cough** camcojb **cough**). And this person was originally #1 in line to get one and do a back to back KB/Whipple dyno comparison. Too bad Whipple dropped the ball and he didn't get one.
So, my question is, what's the delay with the dyno?
Steve
Some of you might remember me talking about a missfire on the number 6(I think) cyl, well the Whipple didn't fix it. We've looked at coil packs, plugs and injectors. It's pumping rich if I remember right. Not exactly the best time to do a couple dyno pulls. I know you all want #'s so does Spanky, but he also don't want a melted piston, he's still trying to track it down, we're hoping it's not rings.and no this is not some BS excuse. It's currently 109 degrees in the shade AT 8 PM at night gentlemen. Not quite a great time had by any L in AZ right now. We're working on it. Unless someone wants to donate a built block if it goes boom for us to get you your numbers.....
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Originally Posted by 2bscrewed
OK, then how about some track times?
OK, OK not the nearest, there is a dyno at a local riceshop and possibly a Mustang dyno at a shop in town I used to deal with, though last I heard the dyno was stollen along with the truck it was attached to.
By the way I'm confused on how this became a KB, MP, WHipple pissing match when it was just a video to show it runs
Last edited by Tucsonpred; Jul 12, 2005 at 11:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by honda hunter
How high can you rev the KB and how high are most people going?
So, if the pulley is turning 18,000 RPM the maile rotor is turning 27,000 rpm. (18,000rpm * 1.5 = 27,000 RPM)
The Whipple has a 5/3 configuration, that is the female has 5 lobes and the male has 3 lobes. The gear ratio required to keep the rotors meshed in this case is 1.666 to 1.
So the Whipple at 18,000 pulley RPM the male rotor is turning 30,000 RPM.
The Eaton rotors have 3 lobes each so the gear ratio required to mesh the Eaton rotors is 1 to 1.
So, the Eaton at 18,000 Pulley RPM the other rotor is also turning 18,000 RPM.
Charles
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 738
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From: Nashville, TN
Originally Posted by Blown347Hatch
You mention you warranty your blower with the stock air box. Does it flow enough with a K&N panel element to make 450-500 RWHP?
Some of the other kits including JLP have hoses leading to the outside air which serve to mix the outside (and marginally cooler at times) air with the hot underhood air that the box is drawing in. Then, besides the stock airbox and maybe Volant, aren't they all "hot air" boxes with a few of them some having auxillary cool air hoses to mix with (and subsequently cool off) the hot underhood air? That doesn't seem like it should be enough to make the difference between rotor/case contact or not? Is this problem basically a resolved issue?
Some of the other kits including JLP have hoses leading to the outside air which serve to mix the outside (and marginally cooler at times) air with the hot underhood air that the box is drawing in. Then, besides the stock airbox and maybe Volant, aren't they all "hot air" boxes with a few of them some having auxillary cool air hoses to mix with (and subsequently cool off) the hot underhood air? That doesn't seem like it should be enough to make the difference between rotor/case contact or not? Is this problem basically a resolved issue?
JL himself uses what KB calls a "hot air kit" Wonder how many KB's JL has been through??? I think its a 50/50 chance you will get a good blower from KB.
Keith
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,703
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From: Atlanta
Forgive me if this has already been asked in this thread, but is Kenne Bell coming out with an upper intake that can take full advantage of what the 2.3 has to offer? I am surprised that is has not been addressed sooner.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Bahrain
Originally Posted by Magnum Powers
All twin screw superchargers have a male and female rotor. The Autorotor's female has six lobes and the male rotor has 4 lobes. So the male rotor must rotate 1 1/2 turns for every turn of the female. The pulley is connected to the female rotor (the low speed rotor).
So, if the pulley is turning 18,000 RPM the maile rotor is turning 27,000 rpm. (18,000rpm * 1.5 = 27,000 RPM)
The Whipple has a 5/3 configuration, that is the female has 5 lobes and the male has 3 lobes. The gear ratio required to keep the rotors meshed in this case is 1.666 to 1.
So the Whipple at 18,000 pulley RPM the male rotor is turning 30,000 RPM.
The Eaton rotors have 3 lobes each so the gear ratio required to mesh the Eaton rotors is 1 to 1.
So, the Eaton at 18,000 Pulley RPM the other rotor is also turning 18,000 RPM.
Charles
So, if the pulley is turning 18,000 RPM the maile rotor is turning 27,000 rpm. (18,000rpm * 1.5 = 27,000 RPM)
The Whipple has a 5/3 configuration, that is the female has 5 lobes and the male has 3 lobes. The gear ratio required to keep the rotors meshed in this case is 1.666 to 1.
So the Whipple at 18,000 pulley RPM the male rotor is turning 30,000 RPM.
The Eaton rotors have 3 lobes each so the gear ratio required to mesh the Eaton rotors is 1 to 1.
So, the Eaton at 18,000 Pulley RPM the other rotor is also turning 18,000 RPM.
Charles
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From: Selden NY
Originally Posted by Grimace
2 weeks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Shonda
To: Rob Caruso
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Any idea on when the 2.3 Lightning SC will be available
Rob,
Good news, our Lightning kit has been ready to go for the last couple of months. Bad news, we our backordered on our compressors. We have been backordered the last couple of months. However there will be resolution in the next month or so. We will have compressors in early Sept.
Shonda
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From: Arizona
well i've got 300 miles on the kit and figured i would pop in and give an update. First i absolutely love this setup. It looks great and performs great. I have no noises from the kit, no lockups etc, besides the slight procharger whine at idle. The power comes in very quickly. mated up with my converter it doesn't take long to get the tires spinnin. One thing i noticed is how much more low end this thing has compared to the eaton. Just giving enough gas to get to zero boost puts you back in your seat and lifts the front end up a good bit. As for a dyno the closest one i would trust is in phoenix 125 miles away. there is 1 dynojet in town but it is a dump, it's ricerville, and a friend went and they had to remove 4 engines sitting on the dyno off to get his on so screw that. also i plan on trailering up my truck. Anyway i cleaned up my truck including the motor and here are some pics:
Will
Will
