Well CrAz3d......if you truely feel that this is not an issue that will damage our Constitution....then I have to say that I will never support you in your political endeavors......I will consitently work against you and your likes because it is that mentality that erodes our countrys foundation.....

 

Ah here we go again. Polly want a cracker?

 

All it takes for you to lose everything that you have is for you to be declared a 'suspect' in a terrorism related case. No due process of law needed. If that makes you feel safe then I pity you.

 

This is for Ponydriver and Wstahlm80, in paticular.

Do you guys believe in the death penalty? Or even believe in our judicial system? Not the way that it currently works, but in the way that it's supposed to work?

If you do, and you must because you haven't left the country yet, then you'll agree that even if our judicial system worked in the manner that it's supposed to, it would still be imperfect. Occasionally a man might be convicted for something he didn't do. Let's say that 1 out of 100 men convicted and sent to death row was innocent. The rest of them were as guilty as sin, slaughtering innocent men, women, and kids. You are given the chance to pick out the one innocent man, based on hearsay and sketchy information. If you pick the innocent man, you're good to go. But if something goes wrong, you condemn an innocent man to death and also the killer's next victims that you just released. You have the blood of many on your hands. But instead you say kill them all. Then you have the blood of one innocent on your hands.
Would you abolish the whole system that we have now? Would you leave the country, because somewhere, in this infathomably complex system of government that we have, something went wrong?

The whole point of this is that it's similar to the Patriot Act. If you get wrongfully searched and seized, well, that would definitely suck. But what is the price that you put on the right to live? What is the price of freedom?

It's your right to privacy, but it's also your right to go to your place of work and not expect a plane to come crashing in. Which of those is more important to you? What value do you place on the lives of your spouses and kids, and what value do you place on your right to have phone sex with your sister?

 

They are supposed to protect our rights at all costs as well. Never should they compromise our rights in the name of ‘safety’.

That does not mean we are supposed to roll over and take it. That is the mark of a poor citizen.

They are stealing from you, but for the most part it goes to serve the public good. Roads, USPS, FDA etc. What I vehemently disagree with is the social spending, but that is not the subject of this thread.

Key point, they VOLUNTEERED to protect us, they voluntarily suspended their rights while under contract to the United States Military. It is not a permanent submission.

At the border to the country this is perfectly legal and expected. When they conduct fishing expeditions with traffic blockades they are breaking the law. They will continue to do so as long as the people bend over and take it.

Government is a necessary evil and new situations will always present themselves. The government must adapt to them without violating the rights we enjoy as Americans.

The government which governs less governs best. We COULD operate that way but the bureaucrats in power refuse to shrink the size of the government and its scope. It is up to us as citizens to make them do so.

 

...ok.....so......if you are the one that becomes "wrongfully searched and seized" and are detained for a unknown length of time.....will you be sitting in your cell saying "awww shucks.....I guess this is good for the country..."?.......I highly doubt it.....and don't tell me "I have nothing to hide".....cause (other than that being impossible) it is quite possible for you to fall victum due to false information......especially in a digital age........

....you think it is a pain when your identity is stolen and only used to gain access to your money?.......think what a "pain" it will be when it is used for matters subject to this UNLAWFUL search and seizure policy.....the innocent are NEVER safe from persecution......to think otherwise is to live a life with your eyes closed........

 

The President just wants to keep us safe.
Bhe President just wants to keep us safe.
Bie President just wants to keep us safe.
Big President just wants to keep us safe.
Big Bresident just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brosident just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brotident just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brothdent just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brotheent just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brothernt just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brothert just wants to keep us safe.
Big Brother just wants to keep us safe.

 

Freedom, and the price of that has been so aptly described but Thomas Jefferson.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
-- Thomas Jefferson

You have no right to ‘feel’ safe. ‘Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. It’s nice to be and feel secure, but no where is it expressly written or implied that you must be kept in a secure environment.

There is a difference in an innocent man being wrongly convicted and the government having the *right* to convict one at will.

 

I'm stealing borrowing that for another forum.

 

 

You weren't singled out however your comment had several problems.

Yes They will know who they are monitoring yet we can't ask who because it will risk everything.

People seem to think they can trust the government. For whatever naive reason they think the gov't has your best interests at heart.

These same people make asinine comments like "Well I don't have anything to hide so go ahead".

These people just don't get it and I guess they never will.

Your freedom is worth more than your life.

I would rather die in a terrorist attack committed on free soil than live in a police state that offers me some sort of fake security.


If you don't agree with the above two statements then you will likely never understand the arguments that Pony, Raoul, and Bill are making.

Its flag day....go fly an American flag and forget what it actually represents.

 

I pride myself in acknowledging and responding to every aspect of a retort, but when someone leads the way by ignoring every valid point I made that made you look like the fool you are, I have no problem playing the same pathetic game and just simply not acknowledging anything you said.

So after reading your entire response, I think the most powerful and valid statements made were pointing out my lack of care in regards to hitting the spell check button. I typed a novelette free hand without a spell checker and amongst the entire thing you found one validly misspelled word (+1 you), and one simple typo that was made because I was typing from my girlfriend's obnoxious keyboard.

And clearly, by me not using spell check shows that I am not nearly as intelligent as you. You hit a little button...holy moly, someone give this man an award for his cunning resourcefulness already.

I'll start here since nothing else you even said was coherent or valid. I actually prefer arguing a point with people that are educated because it makes it easy and clear what is being discusssed, but with dolts such as yourself the topic gets lost in the playground banter and off topic responses.

Anyway, going back to "reading skills" as you mentioned above... let's start with this "GOD given." Now, methinks (Can I borrow your lame little phrase? thanks) that when someone uses ALL CAPS that they are attempting to place an emphasis on something. Correct? In this particular context (stay with me, I know it's hard with these big words) the emphasis on "GOD" in all caps would mean that you were attempting to place an emphasis on the fact that your rights are *GOD* given. Right? If not, please explain the use of caps...because my reading comprehension skills are so poor.

Still with me? Ok, now we go onto the next part, "GOD given, as referenced by our Founding Fathers in our Declaration of Independence," Ok folks...so we start with a STRONG (Like that use of caps?) emphasis on "GOD" given and then immediately follow that with the words, "as referenced." Hmm. Well, since you are so fond of Webster.com (Which shows you must clearly be an intellectual elite, you can use the internet!) Webster - ref•er•enced, ref•er•enc•ing, ref•er•ences

1. To supply references to: “Our memories are addressed and referenced... by significant fragments of their own content” (Frederick Turner).
2. To mention in a reference; refer to: He referenced her book in his speech.
Hmm, ok. Now let's put this together some more...so we start by emphasizing how our "GOD given" rights exist, "as referenced" which according to your favorite source, means "to mention in a reference; to refer to." Hmm, so that would mean that you were saying that God has indeed given us rights, rights that are thereto REFERENCED (There is that word again) in the Declaration of Independence.

As for your reference to "innate" (in•nate Audio pronunciation of "innate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-nt, nt)
adj.

1. Possessed at birth; inborn.
2. Possessed as an essential characteristic; inherent.
3. Of or produced by the mind rather than learned through experience: an innate knowledge of right and wrong.)

Nowhere within that list of possible definitions is God referenced (Your word again, neat huh?). So now that we did a little breakdown "Pony rider style" we can get to the bottom of this...

Well, what exactly does that mean? Well, according to my poor reading comprehension skills (Oh, did I mention I tested at a college level in reading comprehension in 6th grade? Or maybe that I got a scholarship from the Governor of California because I tested in the top 6% of students in the state for reading comprehension? Or maybe that my SAT score was good enough to get me into Ivy League schools [On a side note, I never took a PSAT once, nor did I study for an instant for the SAT]. But you are right, my reading comprehension skills are exiguous at best) that means you were attempting to convey a belief that you have "GOD GIVEN" (And don't give me this innate argument BS, we have since proven that to be a pathetic attempt to save face) rights, that were ALSO numbered/listed/written (Depends which of your ever so amazingly linked definition you choose) in the Declaration of Independence.

Which leads me BACK to my initial reply to this retarded comment you've made, God has given NO such rights to ANYONE, EVER. And please, spare me with the "NIV NKJ" crap. Wow, grats for you....you named two versions of the Bible. You must be a scholarly one indeed!

 

Well I hate to burst your patriotic bubble but I'm pretty sure they (CIA) have you and Brew in their data base!

 

Big Brother has been watching us for a long time. Let's not kid ourselves.

 

my man busted out "exiguous".....

I ain't saying I agree or disagree with your posts but any time exiguous can get dropped in a post I'm impressed.


(For the record I disagree with anyone calling names or questioning one's intellect based on quickly typed replies. Heck if that were the case I'd be like Mattineer )