rough idle/engine miss
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: CT
Crash,
Thanks for your help I really appreciate it.
As you probably already figured out, I don't have a mechanical background. I'm a computer systems analysis by trade. I figured you would know if the "codes" we were seeing in test mode could be used to help diagnose a problem or if they just proved that the sensors and such were in working order. Granted some of the "codes" can be used to get data on what is happening at a certain point in time. "Fuel" case and point, will fluxuate when you accelerate and decelerate.
The fourth item in the list on the post "posted 12-24-2000 02:29 PM" reads "dtc 5284" for what it is worth.
Thanks again.
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Truckowner
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F150 2000 ext.cab 4X4 5.4L
Thanks for your help I really appreciate it.
As you probably already figured out, I don't have a mechanical background. I'm a computer systems analysis by trade. I figured you would know if the "codes" we were seeing in test mode could be used to help diagnose a problem or if they just proved that the sensors and such were in working order. Granted some of the "codes" can be used to get data on what is happening at a certain point in time. "Fuel" case and point, will fluxuate when you accelerate and decelerate.
The fourth item in the list on the post "posted 12-24-2000 02:29 PM" reads "dtc 5284" for what it is worth.
Thanks again.
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Truckowner
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F150 2000 ext.cab 4X4 5.4L
Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX USA
Guys, my idle smoothed out after a few tank full's of Chevron, then new air filter and computer reset (this at 15K miles). It stumbled considerably before to the point I thought it would stall. Being new to Ford, I was ready to sell the damn thing up to now.
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'99 f150 S/C 5.4L
Tow package, L/S, 3.55
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'99 f150 S/C 5.4L
Tow package, L/S, 3.55
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
After three service advisors, two service managers, an FSE, a service technician and countless calls to Ford Customer Service, I've raised the white flag. Today, I submitted the application and supporting documentation to the Dispute Settlement Board. What's left to do? There's no way in getting anyone to address the concern properly. I like the truck and I had future plans for it but with this rough idling problem, it'd be like throwing money away.
Ford Customer Service is forever apologizing however not offering up much of any solutions.
It can't be fixed so instead of admitting that, they sell snake oil excuses like "fuel problem" or "characteristic of the engine".
Stick a fork in me 'cause I'm done.
What'll really burn my biscuits is if the DSB compels Ford to repair my car. That'd be GREAT but why did it have to come to this to get proper attention?
Everyone I've talked to or exhibited the problem to concur that the problem exists; everyone except Ford, of course.
So with any luck, the DSB will resolve this once and for all.
I've been recalling my late father's words throughout this ordeal:
"Son, NEVER try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates you and it annoys the pig."
Good luck to all of you with rough idlers.
Ford Customer Service is forever apologizing however not offering up much of any solutions.
It can't be fixed so instead of admitting that, they sell snake oil excuses like "fuel problem" or "characteristic of the engine".
Stick a fork in me 'cause I'm done.
What'll really burn my biscuits is if the DSB compels Ford to repair my car. That'd be GREAT but why did it have to come to this to get proper attention?
Everyone I've talked to or exhibited the problem to concur that the problem exists; everyone except Ford, of course.
So with any luck, the DSB will resolve this once and for all.
I've been recalling my late father's words throughout this ordeal:
"Son, NEVER try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates you and it annoys the pig."
Good luck to all of you with rough idlers.
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Michigan
MikeInLa,
I have been watching this thread and only have one comment. Been there done that! I even went as far as line 6 and 7 on the dispute settlement board application and answered YES. That is the line that asks you if you want to make an oral presentation in person. There is no way you can convince the settlement board or ford that they have a problem. As ford admits all tritons exhibit a rough idle condition.You cannot prove yours is worse then others. When I told ford that new trucks on their lot don't run as rough as mine they answered back that we have been doing improvments to eliminate the rough idle charictoristic. You should get a reply back from the DBS with-in 5 days. I am really curious as to the out come of your dispute. Please keep us posted. Lets see if this is scripted like the answers we have been getting from the dealer customer reps.
I have been watching this thread and only have one comment. Been there done that! I even went as far as line 6 and 7 on the dispute settlement board application and answered YES. That is the line that asks you if you want to make an oral presentation in person. There is no way you can convince the settlement board or ford that they have a problem. As ford admits all tritons exhibit a rough idle condition.You cannot prove yours is worse then others. When I told ford that new trucks on their lot don't run as rough as mine they answered back that we have been doing improvments to eliminate the rough idle charictoristic. You should get a reply back from the DBS with-in 5 days. I am really curious as to the out come of your dispute. Please keep us posted. Lets see if this is scripted like the answers we have been getting from the dealer customer reps.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 244
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From: Mo US
Latest update on my rough idler: My area rep has ok'ed changing out the processor/computer. When I asked why not change out the EGR valve and actuater first, he said that the he did not think thr EGR valve would cause this problem without showing something in the diagnostics.
Oh well -- hope it does some good. They are also going to check the EGR for carbon build up, when they change the computer. Problem is that this truck had the rough idle since day one.(hardly think a new EGR could be carboned up!!). Understanding that a egr valve is actuated by a solonoid -- why cant they under stand that a solonoid CAN be intermittently bad???. I learned this years ago making a living repairing copy machines.
Hoping for the best outcome -- AGAIN -- Mark!
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99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
Oh well -- hope it does some good. They are also going to check the EGR for carbon build up, when they change the computer. Problem is that this truck had the rough idle since day one.(hardly think a new EGR could be carboned up!!). Understanding that a egr valve is actuated by a solonoid -- why cant they under stand that a solonoid CAN be intermittently bad???. I learned this years ago making a living repairing copy machines.
Hoping for the best outcome -- AGAIN -- Mark!
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99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Lawrenceville, Georgia
I have been dealing with BIG BAD FORD for nearly 2 years. I have had numerous problems with my 5.4 Expy, I have started at the dealership and have been as far up the ladder as corporate in Detroit. Ford is going to get theres. They continue to deny ANY problems with ANY vehicles, and this has worked for them for a lot of years. They did not count on the power of the internet. These "enthusiast" sites (like this one) are plagued with complaints (identical ones) one vehicles and we get to compare notes. I like the way they make you feel (dealers, FSE's, the henchmen at corporate customer service) like your NUTS!! That you are hearing noises that aren't there and that loud pinging noise that sounds like an outboard motor is in your imagination. I filled out the Dispute settlement board stuff, but YOU GIVE UP THE RIGHT TO SUE THEM!!! This just isn't right. If you look at the logistics of the DSB you will see that it is a program actually sponsered by FORD. Now I am sure that they settle some in the favor of the consumer, however, you are playing poor odds. I am not a big fan of attorneys and the courts are clogged with alot of crap, but this is what they understand. Initally they act like, "now you will really get nothing from us" (ford) but the closer they get to a jury of 12 hard working americans, it is amazing what they can produce. But you are in it for the long haul. This is 2 years in the process. They voided my warranty at 14,000 miles because I refused to allow rhem to replace my piston slapping engine after they told me 4X there was nothing wrong with it. They only agreed there was something wrong with it after I hired an independent expert at $700, who presented them with a detailed report. When I refused, (I just wanted my money back since I returned to the dealership less then 8 days after purchasing a $34,000 auto with a serious engine problem.) they voided my warranty and told me that my continued driving of the vehicle would cause irrepariable damage to some other component of the vehicle. This was Novemember of 99. I have been driving this BEAST since. It gets <6 mpg and sounds like a VW bug. (we don't take it anywhere but local) The light at the end of the tunnel: We go to trial Jan 31st. Amazingly, they make about an offer a week since the second week in Dec, but I am holding out for the big dog. They are wrong and they know it and in light of their pattern of behavior (example Firestone tire scandal) they don't want to go in front of a jury. HOLD OUT. They net 1.3 million dollars every minute of every day ( a fact on who wants to be a millionaire) and not one dime is spend on customer service or on research and development on improving their vehicles. (yet they cost more and more) I have wanted to just give in and move on (because it has become a major aggravation on my family's life), however, when it starts to cost them more to fight lawsuits then it does to correct what is wrong to begin with, we'll be heading in the right direction. I feel your pain, but hang in there.
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1999 Expedition 5.4L
With all the problems and then some
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1999 Expedition 5.4L
With all the problems and then some
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Rj-
Thanks for your reply. In my summation to the DSB, I bullet pointed several questions and inconsistencies regarding the concern and here they are:
* Why had the characteristic not displayed itself during the first five months of service?
* Why was it not diagnosed so after the initial repair attempt? After the concern was duplicated by the service tech which was reported to me so by the service advisor, the original diagnosis was a "possible fuel problem". If it is indeed characteristic, why wouldn't it have been diagnosed as such immediately rather than a month later?
* Two colleagues who drive similar late model F-150's ('99 & '00) with the same engine and transmission have denied ever experiencing this condiditon.
* During conversation with the service advisor at the third and most recent attempt, the service advisor admitted that her own 2000 F-150 suffered from the same effect. She also confided that just two days prior, the fuel pump on her vehicle had been replaced in an attempt to correct the condition. If the same warranties apply, why are there attempts to correct hers and not mine?
As of yet, I have not received a satisfactory response from anybody at Ford or the servicing dealers regarding these questions. Some owners experience it and most don't so therefore it cannot in fact be characteristic. The truck's been brought into the service drive twice displaying the concern and both times the service advisors acknowledged it and one actually verified it on the labor description in writing. Problem is, it isn't addressed IMMEDIATELY. Instead, it is driven to the queue, the engine is shut off and when it's brought into the service bay, it cannot be duplicated. How convenient. Hell, it duplicated during service on the first attempt and all they could come up with was "possible fuel problem".
During my last two conversations with Ford Customer Service (12/26 & 1/2) they're still apologetic but they haven't slammed the door on me as they have in your case. Another inconsistency, Rj. Just an FYI, not ONCE have I been told by Ford Customer Service that this normal or characteristic of the Triton. I suppose they haven't gotten to that point with me yet.
Do you have a fax available to you? If so, let me know what it is so I can send you a copy of my summation letter. I've created some decent arguments that may help you out.
Ford needs to be held accountable on this one. They've chosen the path of least resistance here to protect it's own self interest and quietly remove itself from attempting any further corrective action.
By the way, I saw the message on ford-trucks.com from F150Guy, too. I asked him to let me know what dealer he got his allegedly fixed at however he never responded.
Get me your fax # if you have one.
Late.
[This message has been edited by MikeInLA (edited 01-05-2001).]
[This message has been edited by MikeInLA (edited 01-05-2001).]
Thanks for your reply. In my summation to the DSB, I bullet pointed several questions and inconsistencies regarding the concern and here they are:
* Why had the characteristic not displayed itself during the first five months of service?
* Why was it not diagnosed so after the initial repair attempt? After the concern was duplicated by the service tech which was reported to me so by the service advisor, the original diagnosis was a "possible fuel problem". If it is indeed characteristic, why wouldn't it have been diagnosed as such immediately rather than a month later?
* Two colleagues who drive similar late model F-150's ('99 & '00) with the same engine and transmission have denied ever experiencing this condiditon.
* During conversation with the service advisor at the third and most recent attempt, the service advisor admitted that her own 2000 F-150 suffered from the same effect. She also confided that just two days prior, the fuel pump on her vehicle had been replaced in an attempt to correct the condition. If the same warranties apply, why are there attempts to correct hers and not mine?
As of yet, I have not received a satisfactory response from anybody at Ford or the servicing dealers regarding these questions. Some owners experience it and most don't so therefore it cannot in fact be characteristic. The truck's been brought into the service drive twice displaying the concern and both times the service advisors acknowledged it and one actually verified it on the labor description in writing. Problem is, it isn't addressed IMMEDIATELY. Instead, it is driven to the queue, the engine is shut off and when it's brought into the service bay, it cannot be duplicated. How convenient. Hell, it duplicated during service on the first attempt and all they could come up with was "possible fuel problem".
During my last two conversations with Ford Customer Service (12/26 & 1/2) they're still apologetic but they haven't slammed the door on me as they have in your case. Another inconsistency, Rj. Just an FYI, not ONCE have I been told by Ford Customer Service that this normal or characteristic of the Triton. I suppose they haven't gotten to that point with me yet.
Do you have a fax available to you? If so, let me know what it is so I can send you a copy of my summation letter. I've created some decent arguments that may help you out.
Ford needs to be held accountable on this one. They've chosen the path of least resistance here to protect it's own self interest and quietly remove itself from attempting any further corrective action.
By the way, I saw the message on ford-trucks.com from F150Guy, too. I asked him to let me know what dealer he got his allegedly fixed at however he never responded.
Get me your fax # if you have one.
Late.
[This message has been edited by MikeInLA (edited 01-05-2001).]
[This message has been edited by MikeInLA (edited 01-05-2001).]
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: El Segundo, CA
Well the dealer called and said my truck is ready to pickup, This is the third time in for rough idle, My explorer lease is ending in two months and told them that if they can't fix my F150 why would I release or buy another Ford product. I asked for them to just replace the EGR Valve and Air Idler system, So we will see what happens.
I started with the sales manager and went up from there, I don't think the service guy's are much help on these issues as the see us as a nessesary evil's, Sales manager see un-happy customers as lost sales.
Main issue, Rough idle, never does it for them and the computer diag shows no problems. The only thing left is vacume leak in the EGR valve... If it is intermittent, it needs to be replaced.
DonW
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Don W
97 F150 4X4 XLT, ORP, Tow Package,
CD-Changer, K&N, B&M shift improver,
PIAA fog lights, Weld Rims 17", 265 70LT AT/S, Flowmaster 40 series 3" cat back.
f1504x4.hompeage.com
I started with the sales manager and went up from there, I don't think the service guy's are much help on these issues as the see us as a nessesary evil's, Sales manager see un-happy customers as lost sales.
Main issue, Rough idle, never does it for them and the computer diag shows no problems. The only thing left is vacume leak in the EGR valve... If it is intermittent, it needs to be replaced.
DonW
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Don W
97 F150 4X4 XLT, ORP, Tow Package,
CD-Changer, K&N, B&M shift improver,
PIAA fog lights, Weld Rims 17", 265 70LT AT/S, Flowmaster 40 series 3" cat back.
f1504x4.hompeage.com
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: El Segundo, CA
Picked up the truck this morning, you guessed it, nothing done. Still rough idle and the dealer said they cannot change parts just to see it it will fix the problem. It is now time for me the consead and realize that this problem is not going to be fixed by Ford. I will have to either do it my self or sale the truck.
Ford Tough, don't believe it.
As for me, this will be the last American car/truck I will ever buy.
Good luck to all.
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Don W
97 F150 4X4 XLT, ORP, Tow Package,
CD-Changer, K&N, B&M shift improver,
PIAA fog lights, Weld Rims 17", 265 70LT AT/S, Flowmaster 40 series 3" cat back.
f1504x4.hompeage.com
Ford Tough, don't believe it.
As for me, this will be the last American car/truck I will ever buy.
Good luck to all.
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Don W
97 F150 4X4 XLT, ORP, Tow Package,
CD-Changer, K&N, B&M shift improver,
PIAA fog lights, Weld Rims 17", 265 70LT AT/S, Flowmaster 40 series 3" cat back.
f1504x4.hompeage.com
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: CT
36racin how is your truck doing? Is it still rough idle free? What exactly was the cure? I can't find the post where you stated what they replaced that finally worked.
Mark how did your processor replacement go?
My truck seems to do its dance a lot more frequently since it got a lot colder here in Connecticut.
Thanks,
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Truckowner
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F150 2000 ext.cab 4X4 5.4L
Mark how did your processor replacement go?
My truck seems to do its dance a lot more frequently since it got a lot colder here in Connecticut.
Thanks,
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Truckowner
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F150 2000 ext.cab 4X4 5.4L
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Mo US
Truckowner,
It gets replaced tomorrow-- I'll keep everyone informed- Thanks
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99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
It gets replaced tomorrow-- I'll keep everyone informed- Thanks
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99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Tigard, Or, USA
36Racin....what have you found, is it still running good? let us know!!
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2000 XLT Silver 5.4L SC 4X4 ORP 157"wb Ford Floormats, Mudguards,Cabin Air Filter, lighted emblems, lighted interior door handles(all 4) Chrome Grill (4x2 style), Diamondplate bed caps, Pro-Tech tool box, Air Box mod, Muth Signal Mirrors, Custom Gauge Pod-(water temp, trans temp)
Perma-cool 8" Electric Trans Cooler Fan, (2) Perma-cool 14" electrics, Superchip (flipchip), Map lights in overhead, rear pass, tinted windows, back up lights.
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2000 XLT Silver 5.4L SC 4X4 ORP 157"wb Ford Floormats, Mudguards,Cabin Air Filter, lighted emblems, lighted interior door handles(all 4) Chrome Grill (4x2 style), Diamondplate bed caps, Pro-Tech tool box, Air Box mod, Muth Signal Mirrors, Custom Gauge Pod-(water temp, trans temp)
Perma-cool 8" Electric Trans Cooler Fan, (2) Perma-cool 14" electrics, Superchip (flipchip), Map lights in overhead, rear pass, tinted windows, back up lights.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Mo US
Well, as I said earlier -- The ford area rep
insisted oon having my dealer change out the entire processor (truck's main computer). Guess what!!?? -- it did NOT fix my rough idle! I am back to square one -- I am going to insist they change out the EGR valve and actuator(?) as the next thing -- The problem goes on............
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99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
insisted oon having my dealer change out the entire processor (truck's main computer). Guess what!!?? -- it did NOT fix my rough idle! I am back to square one -- I am going to insist they change out the EGR valve and actuator(?) as the next thing -- The problem goes on............
------------------
99 F-150 XLT 4X4, SC, SB, AT, 5.4, Single CD
3.55LS, Tow pkg, Rhino Liner, Sportsman topper,
Westin black double step bars, Custom gold pinstripe, Bright Red/Gold
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Gonzales,La
I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT I AM MISSED HERE. BUT I AM SAD TO SAY MY ROUGH IDLE PROBLEM IS RETURNING. NOT AS SEVERE AS BEFORE THEY CHANGED OUT THE EGR VALVE. BUT CLOSE. THE EGR HELPED OUT ALOT FOR ABOUT A MONTH. BUT SOMETHING I DID NOTICE IS THE PLACE I GOT GAS FROM WHEN IT STARTED AGAIN IS A PLACE I RARELY GET MY GAS FROM. I GUESS THE $1.21 A GALLON HURT ME IN THE LONG RUN. BUT WHAT IT DID TELL ME IS THAT IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE TYPE OF GASOLINE I WAS BUYING. THE GAS WAS FROM A CONOCO STATION. A FRIEND OF MINE OWNS A CONOCO STATION NEAR MY HOUSE SO BEING THE FRIEND I AM I WOULD BUY GAS FROM HIM MORE OFTEN THAN I WOULD FROM OTHER RETAILERS. MAYBE THAT WAS WHAT CAUSED MY EGR SYSTEM TO FAIL IN THE FIRST PLACE. I DONT KNOW. SO MY TRUCK IS GOING BACK TO THE SHOP ONCE AGAIN.
SOMETHING I DO WANT TO STRESS AGAIN IS THAT YOU ALL NEED TO CALL FORD CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE EVERY TIME YOU BRING YOUR TRUCK TO THE SHOP. TELL THEM THE PROBLEMS YOU WERE HAVING AND IF THEY WERE FIXED OR NOT. THIS GIVES YOU SOMETHING TO FALL BACK ON LATER AFTER YOUR WARRANTY ENDS AND YOU ARE STILL HAVING THE SAME TROUBLE. OR IF THEY COME UP WITH A FIX. I WILL KEEP YOU ALL INFORMED. THANKS FOR STICKING WITH ME.
SOMETHING I DO WANT TO STRESS AGAIN IS THAT YOU ALL NEED TO CALL FORD CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE EVERY TIME YOU BRING YOUR TRUCK TO THE SHOP. TELL THEM THE PROBLEMS YOU WERE HAVING AND IF THEY WERE FIXED OR NOT. THIS GIVES YOU SOMETHING TO FALL BACK ON LATER AFTER YOUR WARRANTY ENDS AND YOU ARE STILL HAVING THE SAME TROUBLE. OR IF THEY COME UP WITH A FIX. I WILL KEEP YOU ALL INFORMED. THANKS FOR STICKING WITH ME.