First off, the ol' "setting a battery on concrete myth" :-) LOL How many decades will it take for that myth to go away ?
Ya' see, several decades ago, batteries were actually made, which contained some glass components. Even those batteries would be okay if you had set them down on the concrete "very gently", but because of the risk of setting them down too hard, breaking the glass inside, and killing the battery, people were always told, set it on wood, or something even softer, like a folded towel, to lessen the chance of ruining the battery.
So here we are 60 or 70 years later, and because of the way "most guys" will just believe the next guy, with no actual personal experience, the myth persists.
I first read about this myth in a Readers Digest about 20 years ago. So, I decided to see for myself, and guess what ? They were absolutely correct :-)
I've got a couple of deep cycle batteries that have set out on the concrete garage floor, for every day of their 3 and 4 years (except all the days I was thrashing on them in my boat), and they are still going strong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Next, do you think Sears batteries are all totally lame ? Die Easy's ? :-) Most of them still might be. I really don't know. I haven't previously used Sears batteries.
However, earlier this year, I was researching batteries, to find out what battery would be REALLY strong, for the high end stereo I'm working on.

I ran across these: http://www.odysseyfactory.com/battspecs.html
4th from the bottom fits our trucks. Later, I found out about several car audio gurus who swear by these batteries.... or 6 of them, for like bazillion watt systems :-)

Problem is, they are WAAAY expensive for a poor guy like me :-(... About $300 ! So, I while I was talking to one of the guys at Odyssey, I found out that they actually make that very same battery, to be relabled by Sears, as the Platinum P1..... and for 33% less $$$ :-) Better yet, my local Sears keeps them in stock !
I can swing $200. Still not a cheap battery, but a very tough battery with high reserve.... and, although it is designed for lots of cold cranking amps, it can also be drained way down, and charged back up to full, many, many times, just like a deep cycle.... Kind of a hybrid battery if you will.
You can research these on your own if you want, but the jest of it is this; These batteries use 99% pure lead, instead of cheaper zinc / lead alloys, and, they use a lot more, but thinner plates, to give more instant power.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Red tops, Yellow Tops, yada, yada.....
I know they are okay batteries, but I think they are not that special, and are surviving on an outdated reputation.... and they cost more because of this. Just MPO though.

Will be getting my Sears P1 (relabeled Odyssey) soon.

Peace,
Fish

 

AFROZONE Special. . $70 and like a 3-4 year warranty. I buy them for the IROC and when it sits the battery dies overtime so I take it back and get a new one everytime they crap out

 

They have those right down the road from me. Huh..

Year 1998
Make Ford
Model F-150
Engine 5.4 Liters 330 CID V8
BCI Group Size 59
ODYSSEY MODEL PC1200LMJT
Pulse (5-second) Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA) 1200
Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) 550
20Hr Nominal Capacity (Ah) 42
Reserve Capacity Minutes 78
Dimensions
L x W X H - Inches 7.87 x 6.66 x 6.80
Metric Dimensions
L x W X H - mm 199.9 x 169.1 x 172.7
Weight (lbs) 38.2
Weight (kg) 17.4

Price: $246.95


Kind of weak in knee's when it comes to Cold Cranking Amps don't you think ? - Specially at that price.

 

JBREW,

550 CCA sucks! For that kind of money, you could just buy a bunch of Walmart batteries whenever you need them. What is the maximum warranty on a battery? Maybe pro-rated for 5 years or so? For almost $300, you could just get a new, less than $100, discount battery every 3-4 years for the next 10 years. Why spend 3 times as much for a couple of extra years on a pro-rated warranty. Pro-rated. All battery warranties are pro-rated. By the time that battery is 48 months into the 60 month warranty, if it failed, you would get back about $30 towards your next battery purchase.

 

As sold on Amazon.com:

Optima Batteries 8002-002 34 RedTop Starting Battery
Other products by Optima

List Price: $179.99
Price: $152.31 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.

Group Number: 34 (8002-002)
RedTop®; Battery;
Group 34;
Cold Crank Amps 800;
Crank Amps 1000;
Reserve Capacity 110;
Ampere Hour 50;
Top Terminal;
L-10 in.; W-6 7/8 in.; H-7 13/16 in

Features and Benefits

* Premium Starting Power
* For Use With SUVs/Trucks/Cars
* Non-Spillable And Maintenance Free
* Vibration Resistant
* 36 Months Free Replacement Warranty

 

Dang those RedTops have gone up at least 40 bucks in the past couple years. I have one right now that I need to get installed on my truck, but let me tell you a story first.

I had a RedTop in my 99 Chevy Blazer. We were going through a really tough cold spell here for the month. At the tail end of the cold spell the highs didn't get above 5 degrees. But I had to leave for work at 4am that morning. The thermometer read -36 degrees outside. I got in my Blazer and turned the ignition over. The truck did not struggle at all and it turned over and started like it was a 70 degree day. I was sold on those batteries right then.

 

Thanks allot guys, - Red Top Wins . Doesn't any of the venders/sponsors on this site sell them? Troyer's the only guy I've talked to from time to time and I know they don't sell them.. I'll have to check that out I guess. I'll also see if have one in red @ Cosco down the road. They have them, not sure if they have the one I need or how pricey they are. If all else fails, I'll default to Amazon and opt for the free shipping deal..

Well, I need Calipers now. F^cking around with mine, - Was pulling the pistons to clean them out well and a forgot to throw a block in the Caliper before giving them a healthy dose of air. Shattered the one of the pistons, there's shrapnel everywhere - Glad no one saw that :o

I'm glad in a way, I thought for sure I had steel pistons ?? - I don't and that's what I'm looking for. So far I've found one vender "Cardon" that sells them with steel pistons. Looks like this might set me back a more $$$.$$

I'm out of here , - have a good Turkey Day all!!!

 

The first lead-acid batteries consisted of glass cells that were enclosed in tar-lined wooden boxes. A damp concrete floor could cause the wood to swell, breaking the glass inside.

The Edison cell (i.e. the nickel-iron battery) that preceded the rubber-cased battery was encased in steel. Those that weren't isolated in crates would discharge into concrete quite easily. Later battery cases used primitive hardened rubber, which was somewhat porous and could contain lots of carbon. A moist concrete floor combined with the carbon in the battery cases could create electrical current between the cells, discharging them.

None of this is a problem with modern batteries — safe in their hard plastic shells.

 

I can tell you from experience (a lot of it) that what Norm says is true. The only way sitting on a concrete floor will discharge a battery is if it is moist on the outside with acid (likely from overcharging). Take a multi meter, neg. on neg. and pos. out on the top of a battery that is moist with acid fumes. See how much the acid will leak the voltage. If the battery is clean and dry- no parasitic leak whatsoever.

 

Jack- in a day and age when they have the knowledge and technology to build the longest lasting and most trouble free batteries we have ever known- they're simply not going to do it. The bean counters have figured out that's not the way to make money and they run this world!
What you've said is spot on, but I believe actually from what i've read the plates are THICKER in a deep cycle battery (probably the reason they are able to resist distortion), hence the reason they hold their charge longer without being used but the starting battery uses thinner plates (more of them) which doesn't hold the charge near as well (long) but is able to deliver it much faster (amperage- ability to deliver the voltage quickly as in starting). Use a starting battery in deep cycle service (as in RV) and you're not going to get very long life out of it. You are indeed correct that it's best not to deep discharge either of them very often or you are definitely going to damage them. I worked for a large county transportation agency and for the last 8 yrs. of my career did custom outfitting for their law enforcement arm. In using the largest battery optima makes (light blue top, deep cycle), they still did not last long when they were deep discharged, such as in search and rescue and other like (unnamed) departments.
I wonder Jack if you are remembering the 6 volt batteries because they almost always gave the warning you describe. 12V batteries will occasionally, but most of the time give none. That is the reason I load test the batteries in all my vehicles about every 2-3 mo. because you will always see that deterioration (except in the case of an open cell development). It will start to show probably a year before failure but rarely detectable any other way. When it gets weak enough on load test I replace the battery before it fails and leaves me stranded.
You are correct, the batteries have definitely increased in CCA's- possibly more (and thinner) plates. That's where your CCA's come from.

 

Code58 - I think you have me "nailed". I'm pretty sure those old batteries might well have been 6 volt ones.

But, the distortion I'm talking about is really things like "bubbles" around the edges of the plates that manage to bridge the gaps between the separators between those plates.

More and thinner plates does sound right for more cranking amps though.

I'm going to stick with my recommendation for a Costco 100-month (8 1/3 year) battery though. At about $70-$80 each, I could buy two of them for the price of one Optima.

I meant to add - Yes, the concrete floor thing HAS to be a myth. Concrete is not a conductor. If the battery case was coated in an acid film that created a conductive path between the two terminals, then the battery WILL discharge, no matter where you put it. You're dead right on your observations, Fish!

- Jack

 

[/quote]
I'm going to stick with my recommendation for a Costco 100-month (8 1/3 year) battery though. At about $70-$80 each, I could buy two of them for the price of one Optima.

I meant to add - Yes, the concrete floor thing HAS to be a myth. Concrete is not a conductor. If the battery case was coated in an acid film that created a conductive path between the two terminals, then the battery WILL discharge, no matter where you put it. You're dead right on your observations, Fish!

- Jack[/QUOTE]

Jack- I agree about the Costco batteries. Not that I think they are any better than anyone else's batteries (they are made by Johnson Controls) but they do have a good warrantee and the best part is they don't give you any hassle on warrantee replacement. They didn't used to even test them because you returned them at "returns" under warrantee. I haven't had any problem yet with my battery in my '04 but I don't expect it to last much longer- the red eye is showing and it doesn't test very strong, although it still works fine. My OTC load tester is showing the weakening that I have spoken of. Try and get a Motorcraft replaced under warrantee and see the hoops you have to jump thru.
Interestingly, concrete is a conductor, though I'm sure a poor one. I was testing a plasma cutter that I was considering buying and was testing it on a junk hood laying on the floor. I had done some cutting and pulled the ground off to move the hood and was distracted by one of the other workers. I started to cut again (was fascinated by the cutter) and after a little while out of the corner of my eye I noticed the ground clamp laying about 2 feet away on the floor. What the hay! I picked the ground clamp up and no cutty. Dropped it back on the floor where it was and it cut just fine. Evidently a plasma cutter doesn't need much ground but there was enough conduction in the concrete floor for it to work just fine. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'm not sure I would have believed it.
Regards, Roger

 

Good one again Roger -

Concrete HAS to be capable of being a "ground" doesn't it? "Ground" is, after all, nothing more than rock and soil - components of which go into concrete. And, since your plasma cutter was sitting on the floor, right? (Probably has a grounded case). The circuit was complete with the negative terminal touching the concrete. I guess you don't want to be holding the conductive part of the negative cable or YOU become part of the ground circuit (to the floor and back to the case).

But, of course, a battery case itself HAS to be a fairly good insulator or the battery would self-discharge in no time. So, sitting the case on the floor, or even in salt water should have no effect as long as the case was clean and the conductive medium (water or even concrete) was kept away from the terminals.

- Jack

 

How much does a Motorcraft battery go for?

I still had the original one in my 99 when I traded it off twoish years ago.

Remember that 97 six banger I told you about JBrew?? It still has the original battery too, although it is to the point where it WILL leave me stranded this winter if I dont change it out. Thats a damn 11 year old battery though

 

I have 3 Motorcrafts out in the barn. Two I pulled from diesel in 2003 and the other came from a 351 F250 last year. I charged them all up Friday just for giggles and there still holding strong.

I even have them sitting on concrete