Project BULLETPROOF...dream or reality?
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From: KC, MO
I don't care if you call it the ***** TrueTrac, it's still an Eaton manufactured Detriot TrueTrac unit, and it's the only one I've referred to purchasing for my truck. Eaton bought out Tractech, who had been making the Detroit diff lockers. IMO, Detriot TrueTrac / Detroit Locker refers to the old style, Tractech manufactured units. Detroit isn't a manufacturer, it's was just a brand name for Tractech, and now Eaton. For someone who doesn't care, you sure do like to make a big deal out of it. I don't know where this limited slip BS got started either.
If I thought welded spider gears were practical for daily driving / street use, I'd have already welded em up.
If I thought welded spider gears were practical for daily driving / street use, I'd have already welded em up.
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Just to be sure; A Detroit True track is not a locker. It is a limited slip differential. Like a locker it uses its own carrier. While it can transfer torque to the other wheel it needs some traction for the transfer of torque to occur. Ie: if one wheel is off the ground it will act like an open differential. You would need to apply the brakes to get the other wheel to turn.
A locker on the other hand will send power to both wheels even if one of them is off the ground.
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
A locker on the other hand will send power to both wheels even if one of them is off the ground.
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
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From: KC, MO
Got the headbolt holes cleaned out and threads chased. Also worked at cleanining the deck surface again.
Should I roll with my stock COP's (77k) or go ahead and buy some Globals? I just hate to toss good coils for something that prob. won't last as long as these have. Guess I don't understand the degredation of COP's.
Will I really not need the 24# injectors yet either?
Should I roll with my stock COP's (77k) or go ahead and buy some Globals? I just hate to toss good coils for something that prob. won't last as long as these have. Guess I don't understand the degredation of COP's.
Will I really not need the 24# injectors yet either?
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Originally Posted by Shuler
Slow down there, scottbigred!!! Read my post again, please. In case it was not clear, I was referencing my, admittedly limited, knowledge of the Detroit Locker replacing the carrier in ALL applications, with the exception of the GM Corporate 14 Bolt due to carrier strength issues. Last time I looked, even the Dana 60s carrier was replaced in Detroit Locker applications. In my reference to Built5.4 and Neal's trucks, I was referencing their engine output versus the strength of their rear ends in locked applications. I do not think Jackal has this problem, currently, and think a Detroit (not Eaton
) Truetrac will work fabulously for him. I only referenced their trucks because they were the only ones I could think of with that kind of power off the top of my head. Again, my apologies to those of you I missed with wickedly powerful engines!!
As an example, if you have a rear strong enough to handle 500 ftlbs of torque, tires with a tractive effort of 400ftlbs of torque each, have an engine pumping out 600ftlbs of torque coupled with an open differential, then I don't really see an immediate problem. When you change nothing but install an apparatus that increases tractive effort significantly above the 500ftlbs level, regardless if it is a limited slip, locker, spool, or slicks then (assuming the carrier is the weak link) you will have problems with the rear end eventually.
I certainly hope that makes sense, because it was a pain to type.
) Truetrac will work fabulously for him. I only referenced their trucks because they were the only ones I could think of with that kind of power off the top of my head. Again, my apologies to those of you I missed with wickedly powerful engines!!As an example, if you have a rear strong enough to handle 500 ftlbs of torque, tires with a tractive effort of 400ftlbs of torque each, have an engine pumping out 600ftlbs of torque coupled with an open differential, then I don't really see an immediate problem. When you change nothing but install an apparatus that increases tractive effort significantly above the 500ftlbs level, regardless if it is a limited slip, locker, spool, or slicks then (assuming the carrier is the weak link) you will have problems with the rear end eventually.
I certainly hope that makes sense, because it was a pain to type.
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From: MI
I had what was called "Detroit Lockers" - 4.11's in my mud truck - Yep! They were 4.11's./9"" T-Members(Bullet Proof) - I think they were Dana 60's? (Can't recall). Anyway, offed the stockers because they were ricer third members. Ford used these junk ricer pigs in the 89 and 90's and they were junk.
You can always tell who was running lockers on dry pavement - if you know what mean - Specially when making a left turn at the light
.
I'm not sure who bought out who now - but back then , the "Detroit Lockers" were the sh^t. I remember living with parents and it taking two months to save for a set of those things - freaking things were expensive just to get and then to have installed. - But it was worth it. I was running 17x44's (Directional - HAWGS) before the "Height Law" went into effect. It was fun while it lasted.
I received a Carnal education in that truck (If the seats could talk
) - Good Times
As far as the 8.8 and 9.75's (150 gears) for this decade truck. From what I've heard , they are both excellent w/ the 9.75 being a little bit stronger. The 8.8 can handle plenty and usually isn't a concern unless your pushing some very large HP/TQ numbers. At that point, the stock tranny would be a concern as well IMO. The only time you'll have a problem is when the oil breaks down and that does happen.
You can always tell who was running lockers on dry pavement - if you know what mean - Specially when making a left turn at the light
.I'm not sure who bought out who now - but back then , the "Detroit Lockers" were the sh^t. I remember living with parents and it taking two months to save for a set of those things - freaking things were expensive just to get and then to have installed. - But it was worth it. I was running 17x44's (Directional - HAWGS) before the "Height Law" went into effect. It was fun while it lasted.
I received a Carnal education in that truck (If the seats could talk
) - Good Times As far as the 8.8 and 9.75's (150 gears) for this decade truck. From what I've heard , they are both excellent w/ the 9.75 being a little bit stronger. The 8.8 can handle plenty and usually isn't a concern unless your pushing some very large HP/TQ numbers. At that point, the stock tranny would be a concern as well IMO. The only time you'll have a problem is when the oil breaks down and that does happen.
Last edited by jbrew; Apr 2, 2008 at 11:48 PM.
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From: KC, MO
HAHAHA...nice rig jbrew.
Was reading the factory service DVD's headbolt torque sequence and noticed that it differs from what I've been advised here. Some say to torque in 3 stages to 92 ft/lbs, but the service guide says to torque to 30 ft/lbs, then an additional 90 deg., followed by another 90 deg. Essentially a strech sequence isn't it?
...so which is it? If I follow the factory procedure, do I need to get a degree wheel? How would I go about retorquing after letting it sit overnight?
Was reading the factory service DVD's headbolt torque sequence and noticed that it differs from what I've been advised here. Some say to torque in 3 stages to 92 ft/lbs, but the service guide says to torque to 30 ft/lbs, then an additional 90 deg., followed by another 90 deg. Essentially a strech sequence isn't it?
...so which is it? If I follow the factory procedure, do I need to get a degree wheel? How would I go about retorquing after letting it sit overnight?
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Originally Posted by Jackal
HAHAHA...nice rig jbrew.
Was reading the factory service DVD's headbolt torque sequence and noticed that it differs from what I've been advised here. Some say to torque in 3 stages to 92 ft/lbs, but the service guide says to torque to 30 ft/lbs, then an additional 90 deg., followed by another 90 deg. Essentially a stretch sequence isn't it?
...so which is it? If I follow the factory procedure, do I need to get a degree wheel? How would I go about retorquing after letting it sit overnight?
Was reading the factory service DVD's headbolt torque sequence and noticed that it differs from what I've been advised here. Some say to torque in 3 stages to 92 ft/lbs, but the service guide says to torque to 30 ft/lbs, then an additional 90 deg., followed by another 90 deg. Essentially a stretch sequence isn't it?
...so which is it? If I follow the factory procedure, do I need to get a degree wheel? How would I go about retorquing after letting it sit overnight?
HI!... If your running the factory TTY (Tq To Yield) head bolts then you must follow Ford's procedure. If your running ARP head studs, then I would TQ them in stages.
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... Stock out of the factory the STERLING 9.75 rearend is about 3 times stronger than the 8.8. Theres guys with LIGHTNINGS going 9's and 10's on the stock 9.75. Ask JMC how much the 8.8 can handle. I believe he broke his 3 times until he swapped to a 9.75. I've broken plenty of them over the years as well.
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From: KC, MO
It was suggested, probably in this thread...that I have the intake bowls "cleaned up" by hand rather than doing much with porting. Is this what they were talking about? (The "shroud" above the intake valve?)
Just curious. The P&P guy at the cyliner head shop is running 3-4 weeks behind so I opted out of any of that.
Do the gains overcome the minor loss of compression, or are you suppose to replace the dished valves in the process?
There is some fairly heavy carbon on the pistons...should I bother to take a brass or bronze (can't remember) carbon scraper to them or forget about it? Will an EGR delete help prevent this at all in the future or is it self limiting thus a moot point? (I know, I'm not working on an AR15/M16 here.)
Just curious. The P&P guy at the cyliner head shop is running 3-4 weeks behind so I opted out of any of that.
Do the gains overcome the minor loss of compression, or are you suppose to replace the dished valves in the process?There is some fairly heavy carbon on the pistons...should I bother to take a brass or bronze (can't remember) carbon scraper to them or forget about it? Will an EGR delete help prevent this at all in the future or is it self limiting thus a moot point? (I know, I'm not working on an AR15/M16 here.)
Last edited by Jackal; Apr 3, 2008 at 12:39 AM.
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From: MI
That's a good question. I recall Neal having to constantly re-torque the head bolts on his engine. But then again , you have to take into account that the builder screwed it up in the first place and Neal had Fox Lake heads -so I'm not sure that's a good reference to go by, just one I remember.
On the DVD , you have to wonder if that's a new reman procedure or a gasket replacement procedure . It doesn't say and they may differ.
I would be tempted to follow the DVD procedure unless someones past experiences has reported one that works allot better. The DVD doesn't always apply to every scenario unless it stated.
I could look it up on mine to see if it's different, want me too?
Edit - I just seen Neals post - there you go
On the DVD , you have to wonder if that's a new reman procedure or a gasket replacement procedure . It doesn't say and they may differ.
I would be tempted to follow the DVD procedure unless someones past experiences has reported one that works allot better. The DVD doesn't always apply to every scenario unless it stated.
I could look it up on mine to see if it's different, want me too?
Edit - I just seen Neals post - there you go
Last edited by jbrew; Apr 3, 2008 at 12:10 AM.
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From: Western NC
Originally Posted by Jackal
It was suggested, probably in this thread...that I have the intake bowls "cleaned up" by hand rather than doing much with porting. Is this what they were talking about? (The "shroud" above the intake valve?)
Just curious. The P&P guy at the cyliner head shop is running 3-4 weeks behind so I opted out of any of that. Do the gains overcome the minor loss of compression, or are you suppose to replace the dished valves in the process?
Just curious. The P&P guy at the cyliner head shop is running 3-4 weeks behind so I opted out of any of that.
Do the gains overcome the minor loss of compression, or are you suppose to replace the dished valves in the process?
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From: KC, MO
That's just what it says for a cylinder head reinstallation, but yeah...no mention of gasket R&R or what. I would guess that it is the same regardless. I just hate that 90 deg. this, 180 deg. that. I REALLY prefer torque values...only seems logical. I've never used a degree wheel, I mean, isn't 90 deg. just turning the rachet / break-over bar to a right angle from where you are? LOL.
Guess I'll see if O'reilly / Advance Auto sells the appropriate one tomorrow. I've only seen them for cam degreeing so far.
FYI, I was going to go with the ARP studs, but the SOB's are $400. Hell no.
Oh yeah, forgot to tell ya'll that I got all 20 headbolts out with the heads still on the dowels, no problem. I probably had an inch or two to spare on the rear ones.
Guess I'll see if O'reilly / Advance Auto sells the appropriate one tomorrow. I've only seen them for cam degreeing so far.
FYI, I was going to go with the ARP studs, but the SOB's are $400. Hell no.
Oh yeah, forgot to tell ya'll that I got all 20 headbolts out with the heads still on the dowels, no problem. I probably had an inch or two to spare on the rear ones.
Last edited by Jackal; Apr 3, 2008 at 12:17 AM.
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From: MI
Originally Posted by Neal
HI!... Stock out of the factory the STERLING 9.75 rearend is about 3 times stronger than the 8.8. Theres guys with LIGHTNINGS going 9's and 10's on the stock 9.75. Ask JMC how much the 8.8 can handle. I believe he broke his 3 times until he swapped to a 9.75. I've broken plenty of them over the years as well.
- I know JMC went thru a few tanny's - didn't know you guys retired a few rear ends as well. - Good Info!