Pre 97 transmissions have an inferior case design, You want to see an F7 casting #. The valvebodies are inferior as well. Not to mention the roller clutch found on all pre98 transmissions (sometimes 97 transmissions have the diode however those are prone to failure as well). The 01+ planetary assembly is much stronger than previous models however transmissions through 02 could have used the earlier version(excluding 5.4) until supplies ran out. The stub shaft was updated for the 98 model year however it too could have been used well into 2000. The 94/95 units have red direct frictions. The intermediate frictions were also revised in 98. 94-95 units also used a smaller overdrive servo in most applications. The solid sealing rings on the ouput shaft were put out in 01, again they may have been used through 02. There were better output shaft designs as well.
Alan

 

thanks for that in writing alan, i plan on handing that to him as backing on top of tccoa's short clip of the 94 housing being upgraded by 97 as well.

as you may have already picked up, i crawled under and seen a f4 casting and it supposedly came out of a 95 grand marquis, for some reason i was thinking marauder lol

how should i go about making sure this guy actually did give me upgraded parts? or should i clap the dust off my hands and start over with someone else?

 

Kind of like I told you on the phone when I explained the differences in the transmissions, if he used that case then you don't have the upgraded stuff. He just grabbed the cheapest transmission core he could find and tried to make it work in your truck.

Again, really sorry to hear about your predicament. You have to be VERY careful about who you choose to go with on this stuff. A lot of guys talk a good game and will give you a whole lot of info but can't build a quality product to save their butt.

In these transmissions in particular you honestly do get what you pay for. Doing a lot of research on who you are looking to do business with and finding as much about their track record on how they deal with their customers and their total customer satisfaction history is absolutely necessary. You want a vendor whose driving force is taking care of their customers to make them happy. Short of that you will end up short of what you need. It's all about the customer.

It really sucks to do this job over and over again even when the shop is trying to fix the problem with their product. You can eat up any small amount you save by going the less expensive route when this happens and I talk to people that this happens to daily.

If this guy tried to pawn that case off on you then he doesn't know how to build what you need. To get the product that you need with the modifications that you have, you are going to have to get with someone that knows how to build what you need.

Darrin

 

i think im gonna run like hell, i told him to pull the trans then i think im gonna take my business elsewhere. he doesnt give me much confidence anymore.

 

Whats the word? Is it on the road yet?

 

no sir.

this guy is definately dragging his feet. its putting me in a bind, if i take the trans out and go with someone else my brothers going to be on my *** because he wants me out of the shop. if i let him find the problem, i still have a big ding in the confidence level, no proof of used parts and i have to argue about the casing. guess i need to eliminate the middle man, talk directly to the actual builder.

 

since theres a general dis-interest in rod to figure out what the problem is i took the truck back yet again, this time im pulling money monday. gonna try to call state transmission since they are the ones who built the trans and ask them questions...

my newest observation that confuses me is driving with OD canceled up to a certain speed above 50, then coasting neutrals out. until i put OD in and take OD back out (button pushin!), then i can feel the truck shift into D and pull on the truck for a second until it neutrals yet again.

 

to the transmission gods:

is there any pids i should log to give me an idea what the trans is being told to do and what its actually doing?

i took a quick stab at datalogging the trans and came up with the desired and commanded gear was 3rd while maintaining 33-35mph. meanwhile the trans was in 2nd gear holding over 2500 rpm roughly.

 

klitch man sounds like you've got it rough, hopefully it all works out for you

 

yeah to make it worse the obvious issue is these guys dont want to take the time out to look at it. to complicate it they wont refund my money and my CC says it may take up to 2 billing cycles... im going to have a flat forehead soon.

 

What you do is tell everyone who they are and then point them to this thread. When they see the amount of traffic the site gets and how many people will cross post info about a bad vendor, they will likely change their tune.

It's always good to let everyone know when a place makes you happy, but to keep others from ending up in the same boat its very important to make sure everyone knows when you get screwed by a shop.

Darrin

 

*nod*

firm believer in word of mouth, and i feel if i list these guys business names they will show up in peoples search in google if they ever do before they have problems.. im going to fax my dispute paperwork today.

between Rods C.a.r.s. of Kennewick WA and State Transmission of Pasco WA im getting nowhere. my truck sat at Rods cars for 12 days, untouched and i heard every f'n excuse in the book why he didnt get to it. mostly because there was new money to be had from new customers.

the guy at state transmission tried blaming truck electrical because "theres loose wiring everywhere, theres wiring and a relay up in the right front thats loose". that is a e-fan wiring & relay, absolutely nothing to do with this ****. then proceeded to tell me that he "air tested" the transmission. last i heard that is a debated method, some people swear by it 100%, some just say its a quick way to see if theres a problem to be seen quickly and easily.

at any rate, if anyone can direct me in datalogging a transmission to show as proof against the builders i would appreciate it. all i found is the truck was being told to shift and it physically wasnt.

my small bit of knowledge and research, plus what i've learned and forgotten from you guys tells me the direct drive clutch is probably the problem since i do not have 3 or 4.

so adding the two things ive learned together, the truck is being told to shift to third which is a mechanical drive, and its probably shifting but that drive (clutch?) is gone.


again Darrin and Alan both of you have been very helpful, Thank you for giving me knowledge to use against these guys.

 

I believe in airtesting, but all it tells you is if there is a huge leak in the seal of the drum. If you use an airtest plate it can show a little more, but still it's just a simple hydraulic test. Not a tell all of the transmission. They probably have the valvebody and or gaskets completely mismatched, possibly rolled lip seal on direct or problem in the direct accumulator. The New design direct accumulator pistons are complete crap. Ford really backwards engineered that one. Anything to save .00005 cents
Alan

 

Alan, i dont know if you seen this part of one of my previous posts.

driving the truck up to any speed above 50 mph and letting it shift to 4th (or neutral as it feels), then canceling OD i can feel the trans pull on the truck for a second then it feels like neutral again. Rpm's will hit 1500 before it coasts.

forgot to mention, i understand air testing does work, but what i was trying to get at is what you said. its not a tell all of the transmission like these guys portray it to be.

 

Actually, a properly done air test on the individual clutch packs and then a test on the complete assembly with a test plate will completely show you if the clutches are working. Those who actually know what they are doing can find the smallest leak in the clutch and seal assemblies that way.

But, as noted, an air test won't tell you everything. It definitely won't show hard part damage such as broken anything or stripped splines. It also obviously won't tell you if the valve body is working properly or show missing parts. Everyone occasionally makes a bonehead mistake and leaves something out. It just happens and isn't a matter of being negligent like not testing the individual assemblies and the assembled unit and thus shipping something with a rolled lip seal or non-functional clutch assembly would be. Responsible and proper testing procedures that anyone doing this should folow will prevent anything like that from ever leaving a shop. You can air test one all you like and it just isn't going to show stuff like that until that first test drive. Damaged parts shouldn't ever be an issue on good work either because that would be negligent as well. But, even the best of the best may have left a part out. When that happens, even if they did all the right things to test the unit to the best of their abilities, the problem won't show up until that first test drive.


I know a guy that built a couple of these transmissions with the wrong valve body gaskets. I actually had to argue with him to get him to listen to the fact that Ford had changed them in the later years. I made him pull gaskets out and compare them before he finally got the picture. Hard headed dude. He has also rolled a few lip seals in his day and not known it because he had the opinion hat air testing was a waste of time because it didn't tell you much and thus didn't test the stuff before he shipped it. He still likes to dismiss it as only showing you if there is a big problem because he doesn't know how to properly do all the testing, what to look for while doing it or what an irregularity during testing is trying to tell him. Someone like that might have a pretty good grasp of what might happen when you do stuff like that though. Nothing speaks louder than experience. He likes to pretend that he knows a lot more than he does usually, but in this case he is actually a great authority with good experience on the issue. He also has a long track record of blaming everything else under the sun when there is a problem, particularly supposed electrical issues with the vehicle. This is all so ironic. LOL

The difference is in how the individual or shop handles issues like this when they do happen. Do they argue with you that it can't be anything they did and try to blame the vehicle until it is absolutely proven otherwise, or do they work with you to try and resolve he problem as quickly and efficiently as possible? Run hard and fast from people and places that don't clean up their messes without first trying to blame everything other than their own failure. The good ones will want to know what the problem is so that they can fix it and keep it from ever happening again, not try and place blame so that they don't have to.

Be very careful on who you listen to. It's easy to have the wool pulled over your eyes when you need help. Do your homework and look for any signs of a past track record. The old saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is about as accurate as you can get.

Darrin