Then so would seatbelt laws.

My take, if someone doesn't want to wear a helmet, fine just don't call me to cleanup the mess . The way I see it, it's just another form of Darwinism and natural selection.

 

I never said that they "dropped". Insurance NEVER drops. It ALWAYS goes up regardless. Change of times, economy, claims, gouging, etc. I would be interested in knowing where you find statistics concerning rates dropping to make that above assumption, though.

As for your info you pulled off the Harley site, obviously it'll be geared ONLY to support why not to wear a helmet.

Helmets not only save accidents, but they save lives. You can dispute it w/ every piece of web information you find out there, but it's only common sense that they work. There are also anti-seatbelt sites out there just like these anti-helmet sites showing that they too can prove that seatbelts do not work, they injure you, or even kill you.

Not all helmets are created equal. There is a "minimum" set of standards they all must have, but there are great helmets out there, and even ones they do not block your vision.

Personally, you're comparisons aren't even reasonable.

 

Been plenty fast in the L

125 on the track (road course)
135 (briefly) on an EMPTY road

My .02 on the helmet debate.

I personally experienced a face plant onto the pavement at approx 35 whilest wearing said protection.

It is the sole reason I'm alive today.

You dont want to wear one, fine. It is your choice and should remain such.

However, insurance consequences for not doing so are fair IMHO. It is called assumption of the risk.

End up like Gary Busey? I'll pass thanks.

 

SVT-KY said:
There's a reason my wife (a nurse) calls them
"Donorcycles" <grin>

Not really Cliff, in most cases if the biker is dead, he/she most likely has nothing good left to donate. Now trucks and cars, they are the donors. My .02.

Yes I wear my helmet (most of the time, along with my leather jacket yes even if it is 100F outside, I'd rather be hot and wet for a day, then have to sleep on saran wrap and Vaseline for mouths from road rash). If I'm going to the store around the corner then no, but if I'm out riding, you bet I have my helmet on. I'm like most motorcyclist on here, we have ALL gone down at some point and time. (yes me too) Out of the 6 times I've gone down (in over 100,000 miles), only two of them I hit my head, and both times my drains would have been on the pavement IF I had not had it on.

They way I see the helmet thing is.....it's YOUR CHOICE, but if you choose NOT to wear one, don't be asking ME or ANYONE else to pay for your bills or for your funereal. He/she chose not to wear it, so he/she must FACE the consequences. NOT you and I.

I can go on for days and days....on this subject, but I'm not. It's his/her choice, just don't cry to ANYONE if you go down and get hurt. You chose not to wear it, so live/die with your decision. And yes a helmet nor leather is a cure all at stop all damage, but it can help. I have too many friends come and go, with or without a helmet on. (most of the times it is the internal injures that kills you on a bike or in a car/truck)

I've crashed at 10mph and broke my wrist, and I've crashed at over 100mph and walked away. (Go figure)

Just so I stay on the subject:

I've gone 165 on a 89 FZR1000 (friends bike), 150 on my 90 750 Ninja, 98 in my 97 F150 V6. (Yes with helmet and leather on)

 

I don't care how good a rider you are...Not wearing a helmet is your choice but it's crazy. I've only had my L for a month now so I've only prob been 100 or so. Had my gsxr up to 160 w/ my g/friend on the back on the hov lanes.

 

Hi Capt.-


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LightningDammitt
...Helmet laws? This is a definate violation of personal frewedom. ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Capt's quote:
True... but I doubt ANYONE would argue that seatbelts impair vision or hearing. Both of which are quite USEFUL in PREVENTING accidents.

BfB quote:

Therefore, your argument that helmets and helmet laws will affect insurance rates is invalid.

BfB quote:
I made NO assumption. YOU made the assumption that helmets and helmet laws would affect insurance rates. In this quote:

BfB quote:

Ok... How does a helmet "save" an accident? For the record... I TOO believe they save lives!

Being on the web doesn't make it poor information... after all.. the main interest of the world wide web WAS RESEARCH!

I agree that it's common sense. But it's ALSO common sense that driving 30 MPH ALL the time will save lives, and MIGHT have SOME influence on insurance rates. YES this point is absurd. This is my point! It's ABSURD to impose common sense laws on people who supposedly are in a FREE country.

BUT!!! Even the ones YOU think are great DON'T pass the DOT test! They ALL crack. The ones that stay intact with structural cracking but remain in one peice get DOT APPROVAL ONLY.


Yes... Seatbelts have injured and killed people. BUT!!! THEIR use as safety equipment shows a better record in preventing death or injury. Helmets have been PROVEN to CAUSE accidents!

Now... Helmet laws and helmets have NOT been proven to reduce fatalities. This is mainly due to high speed crashes being the MAJOR cause of death AND due to the fact that the rider will STILL die of causes other than head injury in such crashes. So... with all that to be in account... it should be left up to the individual to decide whether or not the helmet would do him any good, annd how much he chooses to risk.

I figure that since MOST of my riding is UNDER 50 MPH, it will do me some good.

Oops...

I went 140+ in the L... :P

 

How could that be? Since when in the last 10 years have you seen insurance rates go down for no reason?

The argument isn't invalid. You know that rates go up all the time regardless if there are accidents or not. When there are accidents they go up EVEN higher than what they would have gone up w/ out an accident.

I don't have issues w/ helmets blocking my vision. It's about picking a safe helmet that fits properly and allows you to still see. As a matter of fact not having full face helmets on have proven to cause accidents as well (i.e. wind or debris in eyes). Of course they should have been wearing googles or glasses like most mature riders.

Try riding in a Fox bodied Mustang and just see how bad your rear side vision is blocked. How many front end collisions do you think owner's of CamBirds or Chrysler cab-forward designed cars have had because they can't see the front of their vehicle when moving?

FWIW, I don't have issues w/ 1/2 helmets, but I do support eye protection at all times (helps to reduce injury, wrecks, insurance claims, etc. etc. etc.).

We could go on and on and on...

 

I've gone 114mph through the 1/4 mile, that's fast as I've gone in it.

 

BfB quotes:
Never.

True!

True again...!!!! Now... we will take ALL your comments above (and a few others...) and make a deduction.

Insurance rates go up... all the time... regardless of accidents or not... and when there are accidents, they go up even more... SOOOOO.... if.... looking at a state with data that indicates passing a helmet law makes accidents and fatalities go UP(percentage wise)... then... MAYBE... helmets cause accidents, and helmet laws DON'T help insurance rates!?

Hmmmm..... Not that I feel this is an ABSOLUTELY valid deduction. But... It IS something to think about... ESPECIALLY when considering limiting someone's personal freedom with a law that's been shown to NOT accomplish it's INTENT.

Fact remains that one of the BIG contributors to all this is BUSINESS. In this case.. the HELMET business. A helmet that will protect you only in a very NARROW margin of accidents under a low MPH (relative to 70 MPH).

<now in my DEVIL'S ADVOCATE voice> The REAL argument from your side SHOULD be that MOST accidents DO occur with the rider having a LITTLE forewarning, and at 70 MPH he can get DOWN to a reasonable speed where the ehlmet COULD do him SOME good.

 

So the 145 we did doesn't count?????

 

Did 130mph on the highway racing a WS6. I won!


~Cheryl

 

My top speeds are in my sig, all with helmet and seatbelts on.

I've owned 20 motorcycles since I was 8 years old. Only a complete idiot would ride without a helmet, in my opinion.

 

 

Wow, you guys are harsh on the non-wearing helmet guys. I do agree that not wearing a helmet isn't the the best choice, but here where I live, it still is your choice. I have done a lot of stupid things on motorcycles over the last 20 years or so, I have been up to about 175 to 180 without a helmet, smart? no, but it was my choice and the key word is choice. If you go down at that speed on the street, you would be dead with or without it. I always wear a helmet in the dirt but never do on the street, maybe if I was raised in a State that had a helmet law and that is all I knew than I might feel different about wearing one. But here in Maine it dosen't get much better than going for a nice ride in the open air. To me If you are going to be all suited up with full leathers and a helmet it just takes away from the ride.
BFB,
You seem to state your opinion quite a bit on here, and that is great, but sometimes you are just plain rude. Do you even ride a motorcycle? I am not arguing the point of safety here with you, because wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle does increase your chance of survival in the event of a crash. But let us make our own choices to wear them or not without being a ****.
Do you think if everyone here that has posted had crashed while doing the 140 mph and up speeds even in our (safe trucks) that most of them would be alive? I think that a good number of us would be gone, so just think about it and don't just jump on one group of people because they don't share your opinion on something.
And back to the post, 98 mph in my Tahoe, hit the speed limiter a few times on my way home today, time for a chip to get rid of that.

Bill

 

Yes, I've owned many a deathcycles throughout the years. ZX-6, ZX-12, ZX9, dirtbikes, streetbikes, you name it.

Sure, my style is "just plain rude" a lot. Many hate it, some love it, I say just live w/ it, it's just who I am online...

Anyhoo, I've seen too many friends die over the years that their deaths would have been prevented if they were wearing a helmet (all died of head impact injuries), and I nearly lost a good buddy here recently that was doing approx. 15 mph (I believe) when he hit a car. He wasn't wearing a helmet. Sure, he had other serious body injuries, but none were life threatening like the head injury he sustained (requiring brain surgery). It wouldn't have happened had he been wearing a helmet.