I wish I could LOCK this thread before it gets out of Hand
Especially because both Denny and Sal are both good Friends of mine, and both have helped me in ways I can never repay or Thank enough.
But all of us are a little pissed off right now, (and ea for a good reason), so this could get out of hand very easily : o (

Sal has experienced bad results on more than just Me and Mark now on the Dyno with the RT kit, and in our cases we do not have monster HP L's,
we should be able to spray NO PROBLEM. I think we can all agree on that, I know you keep saying D that it's too much boost, but in Marks case it's clearly not, and even in mine it's hard to believe.

Yet up to yesterday I wasnt too concerned about it due to the great success and consistancy the RT kit DID PROVE last season, your right about that Denny Schitt I went out there three diff track days and ran a 11.8 and 11.9 each day, 5 or 6 in a row. It had taken me two years on the zex kit to do that. AND NOW LOOKING BACK and knowing how SUPER RICH that 2 to 1 ratio is, I prob left 1/2 a sec on the table. ; o )
But it was never dyno'd and this weekend it was.

What brought this to a head here yesterday is Sal NOW pumped it up to 150 HP jets and we actually lost power (Yes Lost) that was a real kick in the nuts (&@$^%(@$%@($%@$$@ and with all the time and effort, and dyno time, and changes Sal has been making on my truck lately, Denny you can understand I hope how very disappointing those results were.

I guess the Bottom line is, I will have to settle for 470/590 off spray
and 550/655 on RIGHT NOW, not the total end of the world,
but clearly not what we were looking for.

FOR THE RECORD
My n20 feed line and fuel line ARE braided now, 4an on the fuel, and 3an with 4an ftg's on the n20 line.

Maybe it is a head/spring/whatever issue, but either way we all have to understand how upset ea of us are over it. In plain english IT SUCKS.....

 

[QOUTE]i for one can agree with Sal on this issue.. i saw first hand and physically watched with my own two eyes, as Rob turned on his bottles, the plastic lines blew right off the truck.. any real racer knows plastic lines are *****, its like having plastic fuel lines instead of working with "quality parts" such as using the braided lines.. after watching that happen to Robs truck that day at the track i would never ever buy one of your kits, and i know for a fact niether will the 10 other guys that were standing there either..it is sad to see someone spend all that money on a setup like that and not be able to use it because the maker of the kit used ***** plastic lines,i would listen to the tuners especially Sal take his advice, it will only help your setup become more effective in the aftermarket industry..[/QUOTE]

We offer braided and always have. The buyer has the choice to choose whatever feed line they want. BUT braided is not great especially for nitrous and read our tech section on why by a guy that works in a high pressure field. PLUS the inside of braided is just a VERY thin PLASTIC line.

As far as your fuel comments, tell this to the OEM auto manufacturers that are using nylon for their fuel lines. I believe part of the Lightning fuel line is plastic?

Sal being a Lightning tuner has nothing to do with his nitrous knowledge just like me selling nitrous kits for Lightnings does not make me a Lightning tuner expert on the rest of the truck.

Robs bursted line at the race you were at is not common. Rob never heated protected his line and used it at very extreme conditions which is stated in the MANUAL. We still stand by the nylon for nitrous use and I have plenty of other customers that do prefer it.

 

Sal,
I read everything you wrote and was very put off.

How would you like me to say "Sal, Rob's truck ran great before you touched it and now it has been a piece of crap since then". I don't see you liking this to much and I have no right as I don't know the facts and am not the builder.

So when you say "with all do respect in your above post" where is it? You tell us to change things when Highhpower has 25 years of the most nitrous experience in developing those parts and all you have done is take kits out of boxes and installed them.

Nobody has a clue of how deep Trevors credentials run so when someone comes on with the statements as made above and doesn't even have a fraction of the credentials, it irks us just a bit.

I called you to discuss Mark's problems and as your usual manner you never called back. As a tuner I would think 40hp from a system that can flow much more and you saw it with Robs truck last year when he just jumped on the dyno and made 500/615 would throw up a flag. Don't say you have all this experience with our kits as 2-3 guys tops does not qualify as a lot of experience and we know Robs truck does not count as it hasn't been right since the build.

How can you explain the many other L owners putting up new personal bests with the same hp as their old kits or knocking off full seconds with a conservative 75 shot.

How about Rich who beat his friend with an NX kit and NX uses bigger jets to make the same power.
http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=1070

So in summary don't tell us our kit does not peform and needs many changes to the way the competitors do it when we know better.

 

Fords OEM plastic fuel lines are obviously made of better quality then your poorly constructed NOS lines.. when you used the word," embarrassing and pathetic." to Robs HP numbers with the NOS, i would have to say you should be embarrassed on how poorly your system functions, and how pathetically cheap your plastic lines are made.. everyone else that was running nitrous had no issues that day Robs lines blew off. so if you tell your customers to not use the kit in extreme conditions then your system is useless to the weekend warriors that like to go to the track and rip ***** up.. and yes the braided lines are plastic with the steel braid around it, but the steel braid is there to prevent the lines blowing off like yours did. and if Sal isnt the tuner he claims to be, then how is my truck running so mint? Sal as a tuner really focuses on his customers vehicles, and his service and loyalty to us is excellent. i have never met a tuner that really puts his time and effort into a vehicle, if he feels it isnt right then the truck stays and so does Sal to make sure its right. so im sure Sal knows exactly what he is talking about with your kit. he is the one tuning Robs truck not you. you really should take his advice, maybe send him the parts he says will make your kit perform better and take it from there. i dont like knocking anyone coming up in the aftermarket business, maybe you should try and work with Sal to get your kit right and make it right for your customer "Rob".

 

I was also there when Rob blew his lines. It wasn't pretty, and ruined his day. I do believe it was due to installation and application,however. The lines ran above the EGR(extremely hot) had been many miles of travel on a 100* day, and the tank pressure was thru the roof. I'll consider the lines as a performance enhancer if I see positive results on other "L" applications.
As for comparing kits based on rated HP #s, I feel it can't be done fairly. All kit manufacturers rate their #s differently. I would need to see a comparison using the same quantity of nitrous on all kits.
I am considering nitrous for next season, and am following the findings of all our Lightning brothers. Nothing I have seen yet shows me that the Racetested system is worth the expense. I do hear good things about the controller.
Jim

 

Having 25 years of nitrous experiance doesn't mean anything when the vehicle in question has only been out for 6 years. Factor into that the fact that you've done little testing on this particular vehicle, and now you have little to no experiance pertaining to Lightnings. Not all systems are going to work the same on every setup. I'm trying to help you make the changes that may help your kits perform better on the vehicle in question, but you guys know it all, because you've got 25 years of experiance on "other" vehicles.

I'm sure Trevor has great credentials and experiance, but once again, we are talking about a vehicle that neither of you have dealt with before. You had no problems coming on here in the beginning talking about how much better your systems were than everything else out there (when our system was performing great) and that irked me just the same. But I was open to your new system and ideas, and considered making a new PSP kit based off your systems, but the "better" part never came.

I didn't call you back because I knew the conversation would be exactly like this one, with you being one sided that there couldn't be anything wrong with the nitrous system. I agree that Mark's truck should be making more than 40 hp extra on a 100 shot. And it is most likely the nozzle not being in the best spot, like you yourself said in your phone message. That now points back to my suggestion for a longer nozzle to get more into the airstream of the Lightning plenum. As for the "2-3" trucks, there's a lot more than that. I have many customers across the country who put your kit on and had less than impressive results, so don't blame it on something "I'm" doing wrong.

Guess I missed that. I haven't seen any posts here that lead to those results.

I just mic'ed your 100hp and 75hp nitrous jets, to NX's 100hp and 75 hp nitrous jets. Both 100hp jets had a hole size of .050. The NX 75hp nitrous jet had a size of .039, and your 75hp nitrous jet had a hole size of .040. So I'm not seeing NX using "larger" jet sizes for more power.

If you "knew better", the kits would work better, and nobody would be having problems. I'm sure the basic design of your kit works as intended, but the packaging and design of certain parts of the kit, could use to be changed to work better on the Lightning.

So far, I have heard people having these issues with your kit..

- leaking bottles
- plastic lines blowing off
- nozzle spray issues
- plastic lines melting/chafing

and then you had the recall for the fuel solenoids because the seals weren't compatible with some fuel.

So that's almost every part of the kit, having some issue or another. It doesn't matter what caused the failures, customers should not have to deal with that. They should be able to buy a kit, and install it without worry. They shouldn't have to re-engineer the kit to fit a certain way, or be routed a certain way, because out of the box there are things that can fail.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. If you're still insulted, good. Maybe it will prompt you to change the kit to better suit these trucks. I truely believe that your system can make great power and performance. I really like the solenoids. If you had made some of the changes I originally asked about, I'd have sold tons of your kits instead of none.

 

bring back cactus jack for the death cage match.


yo Sal / Rob i have a shark nozzle from my "4 BANGER" you can borrow to test if you want.

as much as this post is a pissing match, i am learning something!(plastic lines suck )

 

Not to get in the middle of this, but I will share my experience with a NX Kit and a unique place to spray the Nitrous. Started with a standard wet set-up, Bottle, Solenoids, Braided Lines, Heater, Pressure Gauge, etc. My tuner developed a spray bar that is plumbed directly over the intercooler, since my tuning was on a mustang dyno - the numbers wont impress, but at the track using a 50 shot of nitrous - spraying directly over the intercooler, I picked up 6 Tenths in the 1/4 mile. I think this is one of the most effective ways to make killer power on the bottle by bypassing spraying at/through the blower.

 

have any pics of the setup?

 

Maybe this one?

 

id listen to Sal if i were you... your kits are beginning to truly suck more and more each day as far as the quality of cheap parts and malfunctions especially to those that are reading this thread.. maybe you should try what Sal is suggesting here, and you can do just one kit to see if Sal is correct or not. use it on Robs truck being that it is his truck that is the topic of discussion. go with it. seriously what do you have to lose?? you claim your kits are so great prove us all wrong by giving Sal what hes asking for and lets see whos right and who is wrong.. only time and your decission will help this matter/problem that your unsatisfied customer (Rob), is having to make the power your kit says it does.. and now everyone can see and there is physical dyno proven proof that your system is not working for your customer..

 

Your comments make no sense. Our fuel lines have never had issues which is a fair comparison to OEM lines.

Our nitrous line has no comparison on the market. I challenge you to find a 1500psi working pressure nylon line that is 5mm O.D. and 2.5MM I.D. Please get back to me with your findings.

NOS nylon lines are not even close to the specs of ours, so again WRONG. They don't even make a supply line.

Keep the rest of the peanut gallery comments to yourself as you have no clue what you are talking about. Jumping in to defend your tuner is admirable but unless you have any technical facts to share, your typing is a waste if bandwidth.

 

wow, i can see things havn't changed around here...

 

I totally agree, bypassing one of the restrictions is a better way. As far as your results we have had the same which are shown in the links in posts above.

 

You would have sold how many of our kits? When I originally spoke to you, you said you move like 1 kit every 6 months.

Can you please list all these customers with our kits with issues across the country? I love when somehow others know better than I the supplier. It's all new news to me. NLOC, and our forum have plenty of great comments to say about the kit and the results. I listed two already. What are your replies on them? Are these great results somehow fabricated? You claim NX is so great yet I had a guy with an NX kit swap to ours and got better results. Again how do you explain?

NX must have different jet sizes then as you say one thing and others say differently. I'll buy them myself and measure as I can't trust you to be honest.

Your inexperience shows with not even knowing the basics. You claim that we don't know the Lightning so our nitrous knowledge doesn't apply. Yet your test would be to just change an injector which has nothing to do with knowing more on how to nitrous a Lightning. This is just a simple flow test and nothing more as the set-up has not changed. Now if you criticized us for trying to make max power with a single poiint kit and you knew direct port was the way to go then you would have a point. Plus you don't need to know an application, you need to know how nitrous flows and how that manifold design is going to be a part of that flow.

Now you want to start slinging mud with bull**** comments about nitpicky issues.
1) What line of ours melted?
2) A handful of valves leaked from a pressure port that was fully my fault. Highpower did not tap these ports as they were for nitrogen boosting but I was trying to accomodate customers by giving them an extra port and a handful leaked. Problem solved quickly and corrected.
3) Lines blowing off? Are you going to keep clinging to Robs one line as a major fault when thousands of other customers have no problems?
4) Recall of fuel solenoids. I guess you didn't get the memo that US kits had the same problems in Europe originally. We did a recall and NO Lightning owner suffered any problems. You left out the part where you sold your truck with the old solenoid seal which you knew about for months. Nice of you to take care of the owner and not even mention it. Luckily I saw a post when he bought your truck and reminded him.

Are these the best nitpicking problems you can come up with? Other kits blowing motors, hoods off cars, major intake backfires. These are miniscule and nothing to you somehow? I guess we see things rather differently.

Customers should not have to deal with? Are you going to play the holier than though card because I highly doubt all your work is the greatest and fault FREE.

I'll take Sal up on any nitrous challenge. We do it at the track and no dyno. We'll have an independent measure the jets. No purge for you either as this is an apples to apples test and our kit doesn't need a purge. Winner takes home $10,000 from the loser.