Found out how much Boost is TOO MUCH
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From: Northern, California
One entry found for ambiguously gay.
Main Entry: am·big·u·ous ly gay
Pronunciation: am-'big-you-us-lee gahay
Function: adverb
Etymology: Latin ambiguus, from ambigere to be undecided about their sexual orientation, from ambi- + agere to drive -- more at AGENT
1 a : doubtful or uncertain especially from obscurity or indistinctness <eyes of an ambiguous color> b : constantly referrs to other as gay. Call objects gay. c: is obcessed with other sex orientation. d: projecting ones sexual orientation onto others.
2 : capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways
synonym see 03LightninRocks
Main Entry: am·big·u·ous ly gay
Pronunciation: am-'big-you-us-lee gahay
Function: adverb
Etymology: Latin ambiguus, from ambigere to be undecided about their sexual orientation, from ambi- + agere to drive -- more at AGENT
1 a : doubtful or uncertain especially from obscurity or indistinctness <eyes of an ambiguous color> b : constantly referrs to other as gay. Call objects gay. c: is obcessed with other sex orientation. d: projecting ones sexual orientation onto others.
2 : capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways
synonym see 03LightninRocks
Last edited by Calightnin; Oct 23, 2005 at 03:26 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Selden NY
Originally Posted by LightningTuner
Everything is happy again. We got Rob back up to power on his street tune today, and even dynoed on the spray for the first time with decent results.
THANKS PAL
Running less boost than ever before (yes we took boost away)
and still putting down 470/590 on a street tune
AND making 550/655 (with that n20 jet combo) makes me ONE HAPPY PUPPY
U DA MAN
Can't wait to see what tommorrow brings
(well actually today, it's 4am and I'm still up, wee ooo.....)
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Selden NY
I love you too D : o (
I don't know that I would use the words "pathetic and embarrasing"
I mean ya we were hoping to see a little more power too, but the bottom line is you and I know that the majority of power comes from the ability to burn more fuel when the oxygen is released.
Since your HP rating is generally based on the Fuel Jet ='s the HP, hence 200 n20 jets + 100 fuel jets equal 100 HP, I think we did dam good. We are only using a 70 Fuel Jet along with a 200 n20 Jet, I'd honestly have say the HP used is only somewhere slightly over 70HP, maybe 80-85 at the most, and we picked up a clear 80HP, AND again the system was only set on 75% power on initial WOT, so the tq #'s are def way off and actually MUCH HIGHER than what your seeing, but I would agree the HP numbers could be higher.
By burning more fuel higher cylinder pressures are created and this is where most of the power comes from, "AGREED" ? I personally think the answer to the question WHY us L's are not picking up "all the extra power" you are seeing on smaller non SC applications is right there in that sentence. We already have MASSIVE cylinder pressure via the massive boost most of us are running, much more than came stock. Of course you already know that, hence the reason you want me to lower my boost. You I and Sal all know I will see much better numbers on the n20 side if I do that, I agree 100% with you on this, but as I said I'm only willing to loss so much on the non n20 #'s to make this compromise.
I asked Sal if he wants to try that, and we may still, but you need to look at how we acheived what we acheived before you start throwing stones at me
Since I like you I'm going to forgive you this time, hehehehehe ; o )
As you say a n20 system MUST ALWAYS be mechanically tuned via the jets, NOT THE TUNE. What Sal did was exactly that but instead of bringing up the n20 jet size to achieve optimal AF, we brought down the fuel entering the mix, hence bringing the overall HP down based on the normal RT rules. That beeeeeeeeeeeautiful nitrous Air Fuel reading you see on my Dyno was achieved WITHOUT MAKING ONE SINGLE FUEL CHANGE IN THE TUNE. That is the identical tune as the one it overlays, (my basic 24/7 street tune) BUT AT ONLY 13 DEGREES OF TIMING. Bro my son has match box's running more than 13 degrees of timing, ah ha ha ha ha....
Make no mistake, we could gain A TON OF POWER by building a much more aggresive n20 program. Simply pump up the timing, heat the tank to a higher psi than we used to Dyno, adding Race Fuel, etc. But thats not my game, I have never had a full all out race program and I'm not going to start now. I want my truck to run AND HAVE THE SAME POWER on the street or strip. When we post results each and everyone is ALWAYS based on using normal everyday pump gas and can be used on the street just the way you see them, "and just the way we post them".
D I know you are not happy with the results, but Sal has actually tuned more than a few RT kits now (def more than any other L tuner) and has seen the ratio needs to be 3 to 1 to achive perfect mechanical tuning. This will result in lower HP #'s because we're using less fuel, you know that, so the normal RT way of rating HP is kind of thrown out the door. I actually think our results were very good, but give us a little time, this was only the first n20 dyno pull.
BTW
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me
A little FYI for everyone
DONT EVER JUST LOOK AT PEAK NUMBERS,THEY TELL YOU SCHITT
Most people's peak #'s are sometimes nothing more than a spike, I'm guilty of that with my pryor results. Last dyno's showed 615 tq, I only had @580
EDIT
THIS IS THE REAL DEAL RIGHT HERE, and what I feel is maybe the most important RPM range
I don't know that I would use the words "pathetic and embarrasing"
I mean ya we were hoping to see a little more power too, but the bottom line is you and I know that the majority of power comes from the ability to burn more fuel when the oxygen is released.
Since your HP rating is generally based on the Fuel Jet ='s the HP, hence 200 n20 jets + 100 fuel jets equal 100 HP, I think we did dam good. We are only using a 70 Fuel Jet along with a 200 n20 Jet, I'd honestly have say the HP used is only somewhere slightly over 70HP, maybe 80-85 at the most, and we picked up a clear 80HP, AND again the system was only set on 75% power on initial WOT, so the tq #'s are def way off and actually MUCH HIGHER than what your seeing, but I would agree the HP numbers could be higher.
By burning more fuel higher cylinder pressures are created and this is where most of the power comes from, "AGREED" ? I personally think the answer to the question WHY us L's are not picking up "all the extra power" you are seeing on smaller non SC applications is right there in that sentence. We already have MASSIVE cylinder pressure via the massive boost most of us are running, much more than came stock. Of course you already know that, hence the reason you want me to lower my boost. You I and Sal all know I will see much better numbers on the n20 side if I do that, I agree 100% with you on this, but as I said I'm only willing to loss so much on the non n20 #'s to make this compromise.
I asked Sal if he wants to try that, and we may still, but you need to look at how we acheived what we acheived before you start throwing stones at me
Since I like you I'm going to forgive you this time, hehehehehe ; o )
As you say a n20 system MUST ALWAYS be mechanically tuned via the jets, NOT THE TUNE. What Sal did was exactly that but instead of bringing up the n20 jet size to achieve optimal AF, we brought down the fuel entering the mix, hence bringing the overall HP down based on the normal RT rules. That beeeeeeeeeeeautiful nitrous Air Fuel reading you see on my Dyno was achieved WITHOUT MAKING ONE SINGLE FUEL CHANGE IN THE TUNE. That is the identical tune as the one it overlays, (my basic 24/7 street tune) BUT AT ONLY 13 DEGREES OF TIMING. Bro my son has match box's running more than 13 degrees of timing, ah ha ha ha ha....
Make no mistake, we could gain A TON OF POWER by building a much more aggresive n20 program. Simply pump up the timing, heat the tank to a higher psi than we used to Dyno, adding Race Fuel, etc. But thats not my game, I have never had a full all out race program and I'm not going to start now. I want my truck to run AND HAVE THE SAME POWER on the street or strip. When we post results each and everyone is ALWAYS based on using normal everyday pump gas and can be used on the street just the way you see them, "and just the way we post them".
D I know you are not happy with the results, but Sal has actually tuned more than a few RT kits now (def more than any other L tuner) and has seen the ratio needs to be 3 to 1 to achive perfect mechanical tuning. This will result in lower HP #'s because we're using less fuel, you know that, so the normal RT way of rating HP is kind of thrown out the door. I actually think our results were very good, but give us a little time, this was only the first n20 dyno pull.
BTW
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me
A little FYI for everyone
DONT EVER JUST LOOK AT PEAK NUMBERS,THEY TELL YOU SCHITT
Most people's peak #'s are sometimes nothing more than a spike, I'm guilty of that with my pryor results. Last dyno's showed 615 tq, I only had @580
EDIT
THIS IS THE REAL DEAL RIGHT HERE, and what I feel is maybe the most important RPM range
Last edited by Rob_02Lightning; Oct 23, 2005 at 12:36 PM.
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Joined: May 2004
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You actually have the jet power levels reversed. We base the power off the "nitrous jet" and "theoretically" it's half of the nitrous jet number as every motor combination and tune varies. We flow test to know that X size of nitrous jet flows enough to burn the fuel and make X amount of power. Why the fuel jet jet varies is because fuel pressure varies, tunes vary on how much the factory injectors supply, etc.
Yes fuel is what makes the power but not if you don't burn it properly so that's where the nitrous power numbers come in.
The problem is I am not a Lightning tuner so I depend on customer feedback and good tuners. The power levels on Lightning from nitrous are low in our experience but at the same time it's not a big surprise. You are blowing through a s/c that on many are way over their efficiency level with high boost which is reducing the nitrous density. Plus the restriction of the intercooler is not helping either.
Nitrous 101: It's not how much nitrous you can necessarily flow, it's how you preserve the liquid density. Look at how small a nitrous injector(nozzle) is compared to an intake system yet you can make so much extra power. The reason is the dense liquid that contains high oxygen content. The LESS dense you deliver this charge the less benefit you will get and it can happen very easily. You're obviously not going to push a mass amount of "gaseous" nitrous through such a small injector, lines, etc. like your massive in comparison intake is so you will get little to no performance with "gaseous" nitrous.
I don't care what system you use you need to address heat issues and efficiency with the shortest flow path possible(which means get rid of excess coiled up lines and unecessary long lines)
Yes fuel is what makes the power but not if you don't burn it properly so that's where the nitrous power numbers come in.
The problem is I am not a Lightning tuner so I depend on customer feedback and good tuners. The power levels on Lightning from nitrous are low in our experience but at the same time it's not a big surprise. You are blowing through a s/c that on many are way over their efficiency level with high boost which is reducing the nitrous density. Plus the restriction of the intercooler is not helping either.
Nitrous 101: It's not how much nitrous you can necessarily flow, it's how you preserve the liquid density. Look at how small a nitrous injector(nozzle) is compared to an intake system yet you can make so much extra power. The reason is the dense liquid that contains high oxygen content. The LESS dense you deliver this charge the less benefit you will get and it can happen very easily. You're obviously not going to push a mass amount of "gaseous" nitrous through such a small injector, lines, etc. like your massive in comparison intake is so you will get little to no performance with "gaseous" nitrous.
I don't care what system you use you need to address heat issues and efficiency with the shortest flow path possible(which means get rid of excess coiled up lines and unecessary long lines)
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Joined: May 2004
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Sorry, I have high expectations and I can't be sorry for that.
The real test is to see what your track times are. This is where a proper install and efficiency shines as the system is on for a much longer duration than a dyno.
The real test is to see what your track times are. This is where a proper install and efficiency shines as the system is on for a much longer duration than a dyno.