Whippled Lightning
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1
From: Palm Coast, FL
Kind of funny how Kbell just reposted the same thing they posted a few years ago during this same debate, and just added a few more comments based on what I wrote in this thread.
Funny how they claim such superior parts and quality but are still having major issues with the blowers. Also funny how they still, to this day, deny the massive amounts of Lightning blower issues people are having. Maybe there is a seperate company called Kenne Bell that everyone is sending their messed up blowers to. What's more amazing is that everyone here knows the high failure rate of these blowers, and yet KB still tries to make people think only a couple of units have failed since 02. People aren't as stupid as KB thinks.
As for me not selling KBs and not being allowed to sell KBs, whoopdy do. You made the statement - "He continues to promote any product, service or supercharger that he can make a dollar on while bashing the products he can’t sell such as Kenne Bell.", you have got to be kidding me. I don't sell KBs because I do not sell products I believe to be sub par, or that don't work as advertised. KB products do not stand up to the standard of parts that I choose to sell, and this is why I don't sell them. I COULD sell them without buying them directly from KB, as I have several friends who are KB dealers who I can get them from. Anyone who knows me, knows that I only sell the best quality parts, instead of just what's hot this month to make a buck off the thousands of people looking to buy what they read in a magazine. One of your "great KB" dealers fits your statement though.
Honestly I don't give a rats *** about all the KB "testing" and anything else KB has to say. I have tuned enough KB vehicles in my time to know that I don't care for them compared to other power adders. That's my opinion, and I will share it as long as I feel that way.
Funny how they claim such superior parts and quality but are still having major issues with the blowers. Also funny how they still, to this day, deny the massive amounts of Lightning blower issues people are having. Maybe there is a seperate company called Kenne Bell that everyone is sending their messed up blowers to. What's more amazing is that everyone here knows the high failure rate of these blowers, and yet KB still tries to make people think only a couple of units have failed since 02. People aren't as stupid as KB thinks.
As for me not selling KBs and not being allowed to sell KBs, whoopdy do. You made the statement - "He continues to promote any product, service or supercharger that he can make a dollar on while bashing the products he can’t sell such as Kenne Bell.", you have got to be kidding me. I don't sell KBs because I do not sell products I believe to be sub par, or that don't work as advertised. KB products do not stand up to the standard of parts that I choose to sell, and this is why I don't sell them. I COULD sell them without buying them directly from KB, as I have several friends who are KB dealers who I can get them from. Anyone who knows me, knows that I only sell the best quality parts, instead of just what's hot this month to make a buck off the thousands of people looking to buy what they read in a magazine. One of your "great KB" dealers fits your statement though.
Honestly I don't give a rats *** about all the KB "testing" and anything else KB has to say. I have tuned enough KB vehicles in my time to know that I don't care for them compared to other power adders. That's my opinion, and I will share it as long as I feel that way.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN
Originally Posted by KBELL
. All customers who had problems were taken care of. Some time later, another problem surfaced when our customers started really turning up the boost AND installing those ridiculous aftermarket "hot air" underhood replacement filter systems - the ones falsely and wrongly advertised as "cool air kits. There are many who profit from these things, but until someone can show me hot air is better than cold air, I'll stay with my opinion. " We experienced some more rotor to case contact. We offer a detailed explanation of the "hot air" kit problem on our website (see WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits) and now send out caution flyers with all new kits and repairs. With this condition, the rotors expand, contact the case, become noisy and/or even seize. This occurs almost always on the discharge side of our supercharger where the rotors are hottest. Example: 16 psi of boost may see 260 Deg discharge temp with 100 Deg inlet temp. But raise the inlet temp to 160 Deg and the outlet temp is 320 Deg and the rotors expand proportionally. The reason the rotors touch first on the discharge side is that is where the air is the hottest. Remember, the air is being progressively heated as it is compressed and travels through the rotor inlet to outlet.
Yes, we had some customers who experienced 2 failures. One customer had 3 failures before we finally figured it out. On the third unit, we insisted he install a JPL kit which at least has a separate cool air hose that runs to a bumper scoop. No more problems. Underhood temperatures can reach 200 Deg or 130 Deg hotter than the outside temp. Think carefully about this. Would you knowingly block off your radiator to improve aerodynamics, remove the engine fan to save HP and drain half the engine coolant to reduce weight? Now the engine runs at 300 Deg vs. 180 Deg, the pistons expand and score the cylinders or seize - just like any excessively hot supercharger rotors. So, why hurt your supercharger rotors with hot underhood radiator, engine and header air? Don't expect the suppliers of these "hot air" underhood kits to warranty your supercharger. None of them has yet to call me and offer help, so I'm suggesting you lose the "hot air" concept with any supercharger. By the way, does anyone believe this hot air doesn't also create potential problems for your engine's pistons, rings, valves, plugs etc.?
And I don't buy the "shrouded" filter or "it'll get enough cool air when the truck is moving" theories. Yes, there's some cool air that enters the engine compartment, but it is not enough. Even at the end of a quarter mile run, we do the worst thing imaginable to a positive displacement supercharger - we get off the gas and shut the throttle body thereby sealing off the cooler fresher inlet air supply forcing the supercharger to re-circulate it's own hot compressed air through the bypass valve. Now the supercharger unfortunately sees only it's own hot air bypassed into an intake system sealed off from any cooler air that can mix with the bypassed.
.... end Part II of III
Yes, we had some customers who experienced 2 failures. One customer had 3 failures before we finally figured it out. On the third unit, we insisted he install a JPL kit which at least has a separate cool air hose that runs to a bumper scoop. No more problems. Underhood temperatures can reach 200 Deg or 130 Deg hotter than the outside temp. Think carefully about this. Would you knowingly block off your radiator to improve aerodynamics, remove the engine fan to save HP and drain half the engine coolant to reduce weight? Now the engine runs at 300 Deg vs. 180 Deg, the pistons expand and score the cylinders or seize - just like any excessively hot supercharger rotors. So, why hurt your supercharger rotors with hot underhood radiator, engine and header air? Don't expect the suppliers of these "hot air" underhood kits to warranty your supercharger. None of them has yet to call me and offer help, so I'm suggesting you lose the "hot air" concept with any supercharger. By the way, does anyone believe this hot air doesn't also create potential problems for your engine's pistons, rings, valves, plugs etc.?
And I don't buy the "shrouded" filter or "it'll get enough cool air when the truck is moving" theories. Yes, there's some cool air that enters the engine compartment, but it is not enough. Even at the end of a quarter mile run, we do the worst thing imaginable to a positive displacement supercharger - we get off the gas and shut the throttle body thereby sealing off the cooler fresher inlet air supply forcing the supercharger to re-circulate it's own hot compressed air through the bypass valve. Now the supercharger unfortunately sees only it's own hot air bypassed into an intake system sealed off from any cooler air that can mix with the bypassed.
.... end Part II of III
Since you couldnt figure out why your blowers were seizing up, you decided to put a "hot intake air" warning sticker on just to cover your ***! One of my best friends has had SEVERAL KB's to lock up on him. Ranging from 5 miles to 500 miles of service. After KB advised him that it was his fault, and told him about the hot air bull**** he bought everything that KB suggested for his truck from JLP to try and solve the problem. JLP heat exchanger, JLP CAI, etc....... He still had one to seize after the ton of money he spent at JLP for so called " heating" issues. After the last seized he was told that JLP's box wasnt capable of keeping "hot air" out of the blower and thats why it seized again. Guess that idea didnt work! After he was told by Jim Bell to buy all the JLP stuff. You did replace the numerous blowers for him but he had foot the bill for shipping the POS to you every time. Now thats really taking care of your customer
After all that crap, he bought a JLP upper plenum, backed the boost down to 14 psi and the problem seems to be okay, for now. I personally wouldnt want to drop 3k on something and have the thought of it locking up without notice. Im really waiting to see how the Whipple stacks up.Keith
Last edited by red gen 1 94; Jul 7, 2005 at 06:56 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: MD
Okay, I read that whole post by Jim and I have to agree that it's 99% of the same information that we were given months/a year or more ago. I feel like I was just regurgitated the same excuses from a year ago, with the same fixes, that obviously are not working as we keep seeing failures.
Obviously it IS the problems that matter. Each and every problem that the Lightning community has seen is STILL being seen. Since when is an aftermarket blower not supposed to be used with a vehicle with cams? I don't see BDS telling their customers not to use cams in their vehicles. I also don't agree with simply bumping up the idle, that's a band aid and not a fix.
I don't buy this. While it may be the cause, it's caused by poor design. I've yet to see an Eaton fail because of an aftermarket air kit. I believe I'm 100% correct in saying that the Eaton produces higher discharge temperatures than the KB, I mean, isn't this one of the main marketing points of this blower? So if that's true, then the internals of the eaton are seeing temperatures in excess of that of the KB and are still functioning.
Then there was the overspinning speculation, so KB included yet another flyer to tell the users not to spin their blowers past X rpm.
So far if I'm on track I have a blower that cannot be spun past X RPM, isn't designed for trucks that use extremely mild cams, and cannot be used with 90% of aftermarket air induction kits. Is this correct so far?
Jim, you stated that you know exactly how many blowers have locked up or failed, I for one would like to know this number. PLEASE POST THIS NUMBER SO WE CAN SEE HOW FEW HAVE FAILED.
I appreciate your post Jim. It shows me that in the years of existance of the KB, it's still pot luck. You do in fact know that the case is a weak point and instead of redesigning it, you continue to find band aids to appease those who sell/buy your products. If this problem was indeed fixed, then why am I still seeing threads about KB's locking up?
The delay of the Whipple had me in a quandry. I had even priced the KB, but you have helped me with information, and I know that just as it was years ago, the KB is still a three thousand dollar gamble.
Regards,
Ed
Originally Posted by Kbell
We have a saying at Kenne Bell, "It's not the problems that matter. Everyone has some. It's what you do about them that is really important."
Obviously it IS the problems that matter. Each and every problem that the Lightning community has seen is STILL being seen. Since when is an aftermarket blower not supposed to be used with a vehicle with cams? I don't see BDS telling their customers not to use cams in their vehicles. I also don't agree with simply bumping up the idle, that's a band aid and not a fix.
Originally Posted by Kbell
We offer a detailed explanation of the "hot air" kit problem on our website (see WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits) and now send out caution flyers with all new kits and repairs. With this condition, the rotors expand, contact the case, become noisy and/or even seize. This occurs almost always on the discharge side of our supercharger where the rotors are hottest. Example: 16 psi of boost may see 260 Deg discharge temp with 100 Deg inlet temp. But raise the inlet temp to 160 Deg and the outlet temp is 320 Deg and the rotors expand proportionally.
Then there was the overspinning speculation, so KB included yet another flyer to tell the users not to spin their blowers past X rpm.
So far if I'm on track I have a blower that cannot be spun past X RPM, isn't designed for trucks that use extremely mild cams, and cannot be used with 90% of aftermarket air induction kits. Is this correct so far?
Jim, you stated that you know exactly how many blowers have locked up or failed, I for one would like to know this number. PLEASE POST THIS NUMBER SO WE CAN SEE HOW FEW HAVE FAILED.
Originally Posted by Kbell
We appreciate the opportunity to post this and hope the moderators and members think the information will help the Lightning owners.
The delay of the Whipple had me in a quandry. I had even priced the KB, but you have helped me with information, and I know that just as it was years ago, the KB is still a three thousand dollar gamble.
Regards,
Ed
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Jim, your product has proven to the L world to be sub par.
They constantly lock up, over and over. I have talked to people not on the boards who have kb's and theirs have locked up! They thought they were the only ones! I wonder why!
Somone once told me if you want to keep a company constantly in the green, sell a product the customer must buy over and over again... such as a plastic bag. You have done that, but with somthing which you should never halfto worry about.
For me, I will never buy one. I would rather go on a big progressive shot than buy a s/c that must be changed out at every oil change.
They constantly lock up, over and over. I have talked to people not on the boards who have kb's and theirs have locked up! They thought they were the only ones! I wonder why!
Somone once told me if you want to keep a company constantly in the green, sell a product the customer must buy over and over again... such as a plastic bag. You have done that, but with somthing which you should never halfto worry about.
For me, I will never buy one. I would rather go on a big progressive shot than buy a s/c that must be changed out at every oil change.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,097
Likes: 0
From: DETROIT, (formerly Eaton County, Michigan)
Originally Posted by LightningTuner
Kind of funny how Kbell just reposted the same thing they posted a few years ago during this same debate, and just added a few more comments based on what I wrote in this thread.
Funny how they claim such superior parts and quality but are still having major issues with the blowers. Also funny how they still, to this day, deny the massive amounts of Lightning blower issues people are having. Maybe there is a seperate company called Kenne Bell that everyone is sending their messed up blowers to. What's more amazing is that everyone here knows the high failure rate of these blowers, and yet KB still tries to make people think only a couple of units have failed since 02. People aren't as stupid as KB thinks.
As for me not selling KBs and not being allowed to sell KBs, whoopdy do. You made the statement - "He continues to promote any product, service or supercharger that he can make a dollar on while bashing the products he can’t sell such as Kenne Bell.", you have got to be kidding me. I don't sell KBs because I do not sell products I believe to be sub par, or that don't work as advertised. KB products do not stand up to the standard of parts that I choose to sell, and this is why I don't sell them. I COULD sell them without buying them directly from KB, as I have several friends who are KB dealers who I can get them from. Anyone who knows me, knows that I only sell the best quality parts, instead of just what's hot this month to make a buck off the thousands of people looking to buy what they read in a magazine. One of your "great KB" dealers fits your statement though.
Honestly I don't give a rats *** about all the KB "testing" and anything else KB has to say. I have tuned enough KB vehicles in my time to know that I don't care for them compared to other power adders. That's my opinion, and I will share it as long as I feel that way.
Funny how they claim such superior parts and quality but are still having major issues with the blowers. Also funny how they still, to this day, deny the massive amounts of Lightning blower issues people are having. Maybe there is a seperate company called Kenne Bell that everyone is sending their messed up blowers to. What's more amazing is that everyone here knows the high failure rate of these blowers, and yet KB still tries to make people think only a couple of units have failed since 02. People aren't as stupid as KB thinks.
As for me not selling KBs and not being allowed to sell KBs, whoopdy do. You made the statement - "He continues to promote any product, service or supercharger that he can make a dollar on while bashing the products he can’t sell such as Kenne Bell.", you have got to be kidding me. I don't sell KBs because I do not sell products I believe to be sub par, or that don't work as advertised. KB products do not stand up to the standard of parts that I choose to sell, and this is why I don't sell them. I COULD sell them without buying them directly from KB, as I have several friends who are KB dealers who I can get them from. Anyone who knows me, knows that I only sell the best quality parts, instead of just what's hot this month to make a buck off the thousands of people looking to buy what they read in a magazine. One of your "great KB" dealers fits your statement though.
Honestly I don't give a rats *** about all the KB "testing" and anything else KB has to say. I have tuned enough KB vehicles in my time to know that I don't care for them compared to other power adders. That's my opinion, and I will share it as long as I feel that way.
put that damn turbo kit together!
also, well said Sal!
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 80
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For those of you genII owners that obviously dont know anything more than what you read on the internet or hear from your favorite tuner, let me shed some light on superchargers for you.
Paxton, Vortech and Procharger just to name a few fought these battles years ago and guess what? they are still in business selling plenty of product with an acceptable rate of failures in their units. Its called business and you factor in failure rates when you price your unit. If you think for one minute that whipple hasnt done the same thing with their new blower, your wrong.
You dont see this failure with the Eaton for one simple reason, its a mass produced blower for Ford that had to be approved by design and stress engineers to last atleast up the the 3yr 36k mile warranty and it is built so loose that you gotta spin the chit out of them to make alot of useable boost. Spin the KB at the same RPM and you will make a ton more power.
Aftermarket blowers are just that, aftermarket. For the most part Vortech, Paxton and Procharger have laid off eachother because they realize that there is enough business for all. KB has sold thousands of Lightning/Cobra blowers and whipple has sold what? 4?
You guys bicker like children off their meds, and its more entertaining when you just follow the leader or spout out information that you just heard somewhere as factual. Grow up, get a 351, put a cent or turbo on it and **** for $ucks sake.
Still sell caltracs Sal?
Steve A.
Paxton, Vortech and Procharger just to name a few fought these battles years ago and guess what? they are still in business selling plenty of product with an acceptable rate of failures in their units. Its called business and you factor in failure rates when you price your unit. If you think for one minute that whipple hasnt done the same thing with their new blower, your wrong.
You dont see this failure with the Eaton for one simple reason, its a mass produced blower for Ford that had to be approved by design and stress engineers to last atleast up the the 3yr 36k mile warranty and it is built so loose that you gotta spin the chit out of them to make alot of useable boost. Spin the KB at the same RPM and you will make a ton more power.
Aftermarket blowers are just that, aftermarket. For the most part Vortech, Paxton and Procharger have laid off eachother because they realize that there is enough business for all. KB has sold thousands of Lightning/Cobra blowers and whipple has sold what? 4?
You guys bicker like children off their meds, and its more entertaining when you just follow the leader or spout out information that you just heard somewhere as factual. Grow up, get a 351, put a cent or turbo on it and **** for $ucks sake.
Still sell caltracs Sal?
Steve A.
He is a quality guy 
