You still won didn't you Dale?

 

I wonder how the two blowers will compare. Then I wonder how the KB will change with the JLP intake on it. I never understood why KB never made a plenum to match the intake on the blower.

 

I'm not sure it I understand that....

Your welcome to call and talk....anytime

Dale

 

Just to be clear, I didn't exactly say that. I don't have enough information to be able to say one way or the other. I said "There have been several reports of KB failures. I can't help but suspect that the case design is playing a part in them."

I think that you also mean that it "seems it's the one-off case." The healthy serving of humble pie that Rob is eating right now shows how statements can come back to haunt you.

That's really the bottom line. When these high dollar products fail -- or fail to perform -- we usually hear either lame excuses (LOTS of those lately) or silence. I'd love to see the occasional "We screwed up. We will take care of it."

 

I think he is referring to the other Dale and the race in the video.

 

I hope so....cause I just openly trashed his blower choice and didn't really want to pi$$ him off and that goes for the other Dale too but....thats how I feel about it.
Dale

 

with the BS aside, this is a real informative thread.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Openly, in private - whatever.... Ive heard it all already and it doesnt bother me...

My motor/blower combo performs quite well and I havent noticed any degradation of power because of the overly long upper plenum... So long as I keep the nitrous in check, that is..

(BTW - I did end up winning that race still... 13.6 @ ~62mph?)

-Dale

 

Per Tim's astute observations about the KB's case...right there in Jim's own words is a statement that may be true of KB's other blowers but it certainly doens't apply to their Lightning blower: "Billet aluminum 0-porosity hi-strength case." Last KB I saw certainly looked like it had a cast case...

 

Part I of III

Posts from: LightningTuner & JohnnyLightning
As one of the original testers for the Whipple/Works140 blowers, as well as someone who's worked with and tuned most of the few other Works 140 trucks, I can tell you this.... The Whipple has already proven itself better than the KB. And all the proof has been out there, and is just some searches away. The Whipple has been proven to make 2-3 more psi than a KB with the same pulley combo. The Whipple does NOT drop off in power like the KBs do when spun really hard (in the 22-28 psi range). The whipple has a rotor pack built to much higher standards than the KB and I doubt you'll see any Whipples "locking up".

You guys who are holding out for the Whipple kits are in for a real treat. The blowers just rock.

As for the "hold up" on the kits, it's not just the Lightning kit. Whipple is waiting on more blowers from Lysholm in Sweeden, and they aren't shipping ANY blower kits right now for any vehicles.

Sal: I wonder sometimes about your information,and Expertise in matters such as this...

1, How has the Whipple proven itself better than the KB?

2,When was this test conducted to prove the Whipple makes 2-3# more boost with the same pullies?

3,Again where's the dyno/testing where we see the KB Fallen off when the whipple continues to make more power?

4,Why is AutoRotor making the rotor packs now instead of Lyscholm if the autorotor packs are such poor Quality?

From what ive been told those holding out as you put it for the Whipple are not in for a real treat but a BIG Surprise! Maybe you need to do a more in depth investigation on this Whipple KB thing, and get some up to date Information. You Just might get surprised of what you'll find out..JL


Response from: Jim Bell

Johnny,
Thanks for alerting me to Sal Menella’s latest groundless and misleading remarks. These comments should not go unchallenged. He continues to promote any product, service or supercharger that he can make a dollar on while bashing the products he can’t sell such as Kenne Bell. And make no mistake about this, Sal is one of the two vendors who will NEVER be allowed to buy Kenne Bell superchargers at ANY price.

Rotor quality? Sal is dead wrong. There has NEVER been a problem with Kenne Bell/Autorotor rotors or rotor quality - NEVER. Check out our “Lightning Supercharger History” below:

LIGHTNING SUPERCHARGER HISTORY
How some aftermarket "Cool Air Kits" can damage your supercharger and engine
We have a saying at Kenne Bell, "It's not the problems that matter. Everyone has some. It's what you do about them that is really important."

Here's an update on our Lightning supercharger problems. As far as I know, Kenne Bell has talked to everyone with a problem, but there appears to be a lack of information on the web, so here goes. First of all, I know exactly how many Kenne Bell Lightning superchargers have failed and I know why. I personally inspect every one of them. And we have nothing to hide, nor do we try to keep information from our existing or future customers. Just call, FAX or E-mail us. However, a remote post may not come to our attention.

... end Part I of III

 

Part II of III

Kenne Bell now has thousands of perfectly happy Twin Screw customers with a very small percentage of failures. We sell a lot of superchargers. Of course there has been some failures, but all superchargers have been warrantied - except for those that were run without oil, overfilled or ingested a throttle body screw. Even then, we sell the parts or new supercharger at our cost as it isn't our policy to profit on a customer oversight or misfortune. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a bearing, seal, drive rotor or drive component failure on our Lightning supercharger. 1-1/2 years ago there were a few inlet plate sealing problems where we used too little sealant. That has been long since rectified. One other minor issue was the slight clatter at idle which is caused by a cam or slightly rough idling engine. It's not a problem with a smooth running engine, but we have made a change to tighten up the clearance with a new "green" coupler which has been in use for about a year (see "Supercharger Gear Noise"). A quick check is to slightly increase the engine rpm. If the noise goes away, it's a rough idling engine. Now, I'm sure there is someone who may disagree and feels his supercharger failed because of another reason, but that's the reason we're doing this post - to inform and provide good general information that can hopefully help everyone.

Kenne Bell began selling the Lightning supercharger in late '02 after some serious track testing and abuse on Johnny Lightning's truck and our dyno. Somewhere in the original production, there was an issue with supercharger case distortion from over torquing when installing the kit. We solved the problem with an o-ring case and other changes. All customers who had problems were taken care of. Some time later, another problem surfaced when our customers started really turning up the boost AND installing those ridiculous aftermarket "hot air" underhood replacement filter systems - the ones falsely and wrongly advertised as "cool air kits. There are many who profit from these things, but until someone can show me hot air is better than cold air, I'll stay with my opinion. " We experienced some more rotor to case contact. We offer a detailed explanation of the "hot air" kit problem on our website (see WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits) and now send out caution flyers with all new kits and repairs. With this condition, the rotors expand, contact the case, become noisy and/or even seize. This occurs almost always on the discharge side of our supercharger where the rotors are hottest. Example: 16 psi of boost may see 260 Deg discharge temp with 100 Deg inlet temp. But raise the inlet temp to 160 Deg and the outlet temp is 320 Deg and the rotors expand proportionally. The reason the rotors touch first on the discharge side is that is where the air is the hottest. Remember, the air is being progressively heated as it is compressed and travels through the rotor inlet to outlet.

Yes, we had some customers who experienced 2 failures. One customer had 3 failures before we finally figured it out. On the third unit, we insisted he install a JPL kit which at least has a separate cool air hose that runs to a bumper scoop. No more problems. Underhood temperatures can reach 200 Deg or 130 Deg hotter than the outside temp. Think carefully about this. Would you knowingly block off your radiator to improve aerodynamics, remove the engine fan to save HP and drain half the engine coolant to reduce weight? Now the engine runs at 300 Deg vs. 180 Deg, the pistons expand and score the cylinders or seize - just like any excessively hot supercharger rotors. So, why hurt your supercharger rotors with hot underhood radiator, engine and header air? Don't expect the suppliers of these "hot air" underhood kits to warranty your supercharger. None of them has yet to call me and offer help, so I'm suggesting you lose the "hot air" concept with any supercharger. By the way, does anyone believe this hot air doesn't also create potential problems for your engine's pistons, rings, valves, plugs etc.?

And I don't buy the "shrouded" filter or "it'll get enough cool air when the truck is moving" theories. Yes, there's some cool air that enters the engine compartment, but it is not enough. Even at the end of a quarter mile run, we do the worst thing imaginable to a positive displacement supercharger - we get off the gas and shut the throttle body thereby sealing off the cooler fresher inlet air supply forcing the supercharger to re-circulate it's own hot compressed air through the bypass valve. Now the supercharger unfortunately sees only it's own hot air bypassed into an intake system sealed off from any cooler air that can mix with the bypassed.

.... end Part II of III

 

Part III of III

Remember guys, the throttle body is shut off - hopefully - at the end of a 1/4 mile run, on decel etc.

Anyone, including the manufacturers and suppliers of these "hot air' kits, might ask Ford and other OEM engineers why they have designed expensive inlet systems with sealed canisters that ingest cool outside air from the fenderwell, hood etc. They've been doing it for 20 years, yet we still see them replaced by these "hot air" systems.

Occasionally, all of us - manufacturers, suppliers, resellers, competitors and customers need to take a deep breath, set aside the rhetoric, pull together and decide if a particular concept is good or bad. One of the posts said Kenne Bell should tell us what they recommend or don't recommend. At Kenne Bell, we believe "hot air" products are a bad addition to our supercharger kits and has contributed significantly to our failure rate.

The problem was originally with the Lightning’s cast aluminum case and it was fixed and warrantied. Believe it or not, like it or not, cast cases are simply more sensitive to inlet temperature and distortion than their billet aluminum counterparts. We should know. We do both. See WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits for a better understanding of the real problem. Try this. The Lightning and ‘03 Cobra 2.2L supercharger rotors are identical. Same batch, machine, quality, etc. Now why was there only a problem with the Lightning? Look at what’s different and you have the problem - cast case and underhood filters and NOT the “rotor quality” as Sal incorrectly states.

Poor Customer Service? Sal apparently doesn’t believe our customers when they commend us for good service. So be it.

Locking Up? If Sal is concerned about Kenne Bell blowers locking up, why not give him your customer list. We’ve sold one hell of a lot of Lightning superchargers to you - and isn’t the very first cast case supercharger still making 700+HP on your truck without ever being serviced? Did we ever decline a legitimate warranty to you? If there are any unhappy Lightning customers out there, give me a call personally.

One other misleading Sal comment. “The Whipple has a rotor pack built to much higher standards than the KB and I doubt you’ll see any Whipple’s “locking up.” Total B.S. Did you know that more and more Lysholm’s machining and components are being transferred to the Autorotor facility, as are the key personnel and Lysholm management. These changes are not intended to belittle Lysholm in any way. Both the Lysholm and Autorotor people, facilities, superchargers - and rotors - are high quality products, so I don’t see any new or future problems for either supercharger company. A customer should always buy based on a products reputation for performance and the companies reputation for service in lieu of someone’s personal bias.

Supercharging Lightning’s is an important and very enjoyable part of Kenne Bell business. We believe our supercharger will produce all the HP 99% of the Lightning’s will ever need - and if we decide to build one for the remaining 1%, you’ll be the first to test one. Yes, we’ve been doing more testing. See Ford Tech Info "Why Bigger Superchargers Aren't Always Better".

We appreciate the opportunity to post this and hope the moderators and members think the information will help the Lightning owners.

Jim Bell

 

THANKS JIM - VERY INFORMATIVE - NOW WHERES MY BLOWER!