If you can't look at creation just in itself and not see the glory of Gods work your blind and lost. You cant seriously think it's all a accident?!?

Because Jesus himself said so.....people prior to Jesus had direct communication with him (thousands of instances in the bible) and therefore had a realashionship with the creator. God has made provisions for ALL human kind threw Jesus.

 

Thanks NC. I will say I understand everyone's point of view - I read every response before I added my thoughts, some I agree with and some I find completely whacked. Love is love, can anyone disagree with that?

 

I'm going to step out on a limb here, but I have a point. Does anyone here believe in extra terrestrials or that we are alone in the universe? If you do, did god create them too? If so, does your bible talk about them as being creations of god?

 

And you're arrogant enough to think that a God that created the whole infinite universe and everything in it (including gay folks and aliens) gives a rat's behind about about where someone wants to stick his **** at night?

What happened to love thy neighbor? Or is it only a certain type of neighbor you're supposed to love? I find mindlessly religious people to be some of the most hypocritical.

Oh, OK. So all the raping, pillaging, homosexuality, murder, drinking, worshiping of multiple God's, etc etc was all cool because before Jesus anyone could communicate with "God". Seems like ALL of human kind was already included until JC came along and told everyone there's only one path, through him.

So you're saying that when you go to heaven you'll be sharing it with drunken homosexual Roman warriors who killed women and children?

- NCSU

 

Wow dude your way out there I'll give you that. And it's obvious you don't read the bible or believe in God at all. I don't hate anyone....I do hate the actions of these murders rapist etc. Anyone can gain forgiveness by following Christ And REPENTING of there sins. I never once called you mindless like you have "us religious people".

 

You're right, I'm not mindless, I ask questions and expect reasonable answers. It's mindless to answer a question with, "because the bible said so". How many times has that been said in this thread alone?

No, I don't read a book that's 2000 years old and take it literally. And if it's not to be taken literally, how can you guys use it as "proof" for your beliefs. I mean, it's a book written by men, and Man is imperfect and corruptible.

I don't have a problem with God, I have a problem with organized religion because it really serves no purpose other than to serve itself. Look at the long and often dark history of the Catholic Church. I'm not talking about the past 50 years (which is dark enough) but more like the past 500+.

The big thing that turns me away from organized religion is that each religion thinks only theirs is right, which means they must believe every other religion is wrong. Most of the time your religious beliefs are instilled by your family or your community. I refuse to believe that an almighty creator would damn or save someone based on what is essentially the luck of the draw. Do you really think an innocent child in Iran will be able to have a truly Christian upbringing? Is that child doomed because he was born in the "wrong" place or time to learn about JC?

What about the "lost" peoples of the Amazon or other indigenous people who've never heard of Christianity or any other major religions? Are they going to hell because they don't know JC? Of course your answer will be something to the tune of, "that's why missionaries travel the world to spread the word", but that doesn't answer my question.

Much like the Incas and Aztecs, both cultures were around long after JC came and went, but they had no way of knowing about him or his teachings, so are they doomed?

If there is God, Heaven and Hell, there must be an answer to these questions.

- NCSU

 

Well bud this is a truck forum. Because the bible said so is a great reasponse. You don't read the bible or believe in the bible so why do you need me to prove it to you from there? You don't believe the god that created all things can't direct sinful men to write his word down? Wow. The more you type the more "mindless" you sound.

 

I respect your opinion, that this is the way it happened.
Opinions are just that, opinions not facts.
To use one opinion to prove another opinion incorrect is speculation.
It is supposition how it actually happened, this is why there are so many opinions on the topic.

I always found this line of thought very interesting, as I have yet to see where someone other than a 'man' has said, basically, this very thing.
Even Christianity argues between the different 'versions' ( for a lack of better descriptor ) on the acceptance of gay people.

The issue becomes the multiple translations, in simple terms the possibility of the "telephone game" starts to look more and more better than even odds with how many times man has the ability to pervert what started way back in what ever time it was ( 150 BC, or 385 AD, or somewhere in between ? ).

When the thought of "What do you have to loose in believing" is used, there is still the question of which religion to choose; Christianity, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Druidism, etc is the one to use for the 'what do you have to loose' logic.

Myself, let them get married ( as long as they follow the modern day's rules on age and consent, etc )
The only thing changing is a piece of paper when it comes down to it.
- They are not any more or less committed to each other by having the paper.
- They can already have health insurance on the partners via domestic partner provisions ( actually this is valid on M-F, M-M and F-F ).
- If they have bank / investment accounts titled correctly, there is not a tax issue
-- 401(k) is a question without actual gov paper, and pension could be an issue, I am not sure on these, they could be an exclusion from the above item.
- Property ownership is not an issue, 2 people of any orientation can own property together and not have an issue if titled correctly.

When it comes down to it, the argument of "What do you have to loose" should be applied to same sex marriages.
Really what does anyone have to loose by allowing it ?

It is not going to change society forever, man has already been working on that long enough ( not to pick on anyone specific , but Organized Crime has long be tied to religion and crime ).
The inclusion of a piece of paper ( for 2 specific people ) is not going to accelerate the end of days. To say it will accelerate the end of days is an opinion, and only that.

 

Funny, you're the one pushing religious views here, not me. I'm not trying to say that two people shouldn't be allowed to form a union, you are, and you're using religion as the reason for your views.

This is growing tiring as you continue to avoid answering any of the questions I've posed, probably because you can't answer them. I don't know how much more 'mindless' one can be if they choose not to think for themselves.

The bible says that women are essentially property of men, to be used for breeding. Does that still hold true in your eyes? I mean, come on, the bible says so!

I'll bet you just call me mindless and say that I, "don't get it", right?

- NCSU

 

Sorry your wrong again. I'm not pushing anything but what I've read with my own 2 eyes. I'm not twisting what the words of the bible around like you "non bible thumpers" ........it's really in plain English. You choose not to follow it and I choose to follow it. Im not trying to get you to convert to anything. I believe in GOD and the BIBLE and what it has to say. If you want to further this discussion my pm box is open. My lunch break is over and I'm back to work.

Oh and I love your truck but hate those wheels

 

NCSU...if you read furthur in Ephesians, you'll see a verse that calls for the husband to submit to his wife, in the same way that the church is God's bride. It is not meant to sound like the wife is a slave held captive by her husband, however the Bible states that the husband is to be the head of the household and is supposed to lead his family in the way of the Lord.T aking things from context and not understanding the tense in which they're written can completely change the meaning. That is what makes you sound like a fool.

To clear up the confusion about Jesus: God desires us to have free will and make our own decisions. Since Adam was the first one to fall into temptation and sin, man has had a 'sin nature.' We do not naturally seek to serve God and fulfill his desires. We naturally rebel, curse, and trample his desires for us simply because we don't understand. Every man and woman is born into sin. Because of this, we are not deserving of life in Heaven after death. Therefore, in order for a price to be paid, God sent Jesus, a flesh-and-blood man, to live and die for our sins. He was the only way that we, as humans, could see and understand. He paid the price so that we may be forgiven for our sinful nature. In return, he simply asks that we live according to God's word and let his light shine in and through our lives. Nothing else on this earth will ever amount to anything because in the end, the only thing that matters for the fate of our eternity is whether or not we believe in salvation through Jesus Christ and that he is the only one who can forgive our sins. Our 70 or 80 or 90 year human lives are only a split second compared to eternity.
It is not my job to convict your heart, its my job to teach and encourage people about what the Bible says.

You guys may think that guys like me are weird and dont understand the 'real world.' I'm 27, I grew up on a farm, played sports through high school and 6 years of college, worked construction, love fishing and can play a mean banjo. Im a normal guy and I've done most things that you guys have; drank way too much for years, slept around with women that I had no interest in, got in fights, got arrested multiple times, and tried viewing this world as though earthly achievements and possessions mattered. While I was working for a concrete pouring crew, I met a man that changed my life. I can hardly describe it on an internet forum. I don't care if youre 80 years old and you look at me and laugh, I know something that you dont and I wish with everything in me that you could see what I have seen. It will make the light of the world become very dim and the light of God shine in every single thing you do.

 

Very well said Green.

 

Yes, you are pushing your religious views on to other people.... remember this?

You're pushing your religious views onto gay people by not allowing them to get married. It's not like that's stopping them from being together, right? Is it just the word 'married' you don't like because the bible defines 'marriage' as a union between a man and a woman?

If gay marriage were called Sanctioned Joining, and came with all the secular benefits as marriage, would you still be against it?


But you'll try prevent people from living the life they want to choose, even though there's no harm caused and no illegal activities (not talking about the lifestyle of a gang-banger, drug smuggler, mafia hitman, that kinda thing.)



I just put up quotes like everyone else does when "quoting the bible". Yes I realize many things can be taken out of context, and sometimes are done so purposefully. On top of that, the various translations have watered down the original meanings.

Regardless, you don't deny that there are passages in the bible that are crystal clear that just are no longer applicable, or do you support the old ways of stoning people to death?

So can you answer the questions I posed earlier? Before Jesus, was everyone who lived doomed to spend eternity in hell? (If so, did God send JC because he was getting lonely and wanted some more company?)

What about those people born into times and places were they've never heard of the bible, or Jesus? Can those people never get into Heaven because they never had the opportunity to hear the message of Christ?

If JC is the only way to Heaven, does that mean that all other religions are simply wrong?

- NCSU

 

Suppose you're a judge. You uphold the written law. A girl is hauled into your courtroom and is charged with speeding and running a redlight. The fine is life in prison. So when all the evidence is presented and the girl is clearly guilty, it seems fitting that the judge would slam the gavel and be done with it. But all of the sudden, the judge notices that the girl is his daughter. She cries out for help and mercy even though she know she sped and ran the red light. Instantly, because that is his child, the judge jumps up stands in the way of the police officers that are going to haul her off to prison and pleads with them to let him take her place and for them to take mercy on his daughter because she made a mistake.

Jesus did the same for us because we are God's children. Because of man's sin nature, we deserve eternal separation from God, in hell. But he sent Jesus, as a man, to step in and pay a price for our sins. Therefore, no person may come to God except through Jesus, who paid the price, through torture and death, for our sins.

 

That analogy would only work if the Judge not only wrote the laws, but decided the punishment for breaking them. In which case he never have had to plead with police to let him take the place of his child since he could have just changed the law or reduced the punishment. Besides, the cops would just tell the judge, "No you can't take her place, it doesn't work like that. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, perhaps you should have spent more time teaching your daughter about the consequences of her actions and less time campaigning for re-election."

So since you didn't answer some basic questions, I'll infer from your response the answers you'd give would go something like this....

- NCSU