CO2 (gas) + H20 + photosynthesis -> C6H12O6(organic material) + O2 (gas)
...The oxygen stays as itself when it is not contained by the plant or being transported by various cells. But you can have your air since I dont really like the details of plants any more than their role in an ecosystem.

There will be many more questions to ask before we can discuss the grand unification theories but many refuse to ask questions if they already believe they know the answer.

Also what do you think are the chances of such a powerful entity (the church) admitting that it is wrong? The consequences would be catastrophic. But look on the bright side, I'm in the field of biology (no I wasn't joking) and I dont believe in evolution. It is a theory that can be disproven just like everything else. I know there are massive amounts of evidence to support it but unlike these people I see it as an idea (http://www.theonion.com/articles/evo...ll-stain,2523/ seriously, read this, you will never laugh harder or feel more desturbed)

And as much as I dislike physics that last statement is true but I always guessed everyone understood that. But sadly many people dont really have a firm concept of what mass even is.

 

I haven't read the link yet. But I'm going to. But believe me when I tell you. People aren't even willing to entertain the idea what mass is. Pretty narrow minded some of the people here are.
I'm very pleased to meet you

 

The Church had to admit that Earth wasn't the center of the Universe. It will also have to admit to many other things in the future.
At this time all we have are unanswered questions, and no matter how far unbelievers value science. Science has only scratched the surface. I really feel sorry for the ones that have the answers.
As far as the stain on the wall in the article, it just goes to show that people have to have a place to put Faith. Because they really don't even know the questions.

 

Honor is mine. Haha every time I touch this topic...

Yeah but it is easier to accept that the Earth isn't the center because that is a point of perspective. Saying the whole start is wrong is something else. Darwin and Wallace already haggled out the "set number of species" that the church proclaimed and showed different methods of speciation. Pretty soon that church of yours'll run out of ground to stand on if they keep handing it over, then you'll have to worship a moldy wall.

 

Well stated... All the rest of this is bullcrap .

Personally, I don't like the idea either- but professionally, there's nothing wrong with where they put the mosque. There's probably a church near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City, too. All zealots are bad/crazy- no need to single out the Muslims, or expect the President to intervene on everything, including real estate discussions.

Hi Kobi & LT!

 

Agreed... All this "Victory" stuff is a load of crap. And, sure- Hamas has jumped on the bandwagon because it's a divisive issue. If this had never made the news- we wouldn't be talking about this- and Hamas would likely have never known where the Mosque was proposed to be.

A few things-

1.) Muslims were in the Twin Towers and the Pentagon when they were hit- and not just the ones on the planes.

2.) Twenty radical Muslims can't be representative of the millions and millions of Muslims who embrace true Islam.

3.) Although the 9/11 attacks killed nearly 3,000 Americans, and changed the way we view the world, radical Muslims have killed far more Muslims who don't share their views, than they have us "infidels" in the USA. Hell, Saddam Hussein killed more than 3,000 by himself.

4.) Folks bash the current administration- but, what would be different if this had come up in Bush's administration? I doubt Bush would have painted himself in a corner either- by taking a stance that was not in line with the constitution.

 

Maybe wise was the wrong word. I'll say it would be more advantageous to be dishonest in that making an honest living one would be less likely to be successful/powerful (i.e., politicians). Since upon death the atheist thinks they have no one to answer to.

Anyways, I've grown weary of our discussions and mean this when I say: Peace be unto you.

 

There will always be a need for the Church. It does not matter how much society changes. The Church of the past made many mistakes, as will anything managed by humans in the future.

The Church offers a profound legacy, but it is up to the individual to find it.

I would be happy to hear any of your thoughts on physics and cosmology.
I have read Sagan, Hawking, Einstein's, and others works. Also CERN, JPL, Berkley, and many other ideas on the subjects of quantum mechanics, and associated fields of study. Where do you start on the subject?

 

Duplicate.

 

I'll toast to that!
My thoughts on this part of the topic exactly as long as anyone can find their own.

Physics: projectile physics is fun to test but not fun to calculate.
One thing I like about physics is how it takes complicated concepts and uses simple words. Right now "work" is the only one that comes to mind but anyone who knows how the sciences of physics, chem and bio differ will know what I mean.
But I remember in high school we made bridges in physics out of sticks and glue. Everyone built theirs to look good or go for the weight bearing record but I made mine to blow up...and accomplished my goal. I had the only bridge that truely made debris ranging from full panels to shreded splinters.

Unfortunately astronomy isn't very high up on my list of favorites because they seem like a hobby science with little practical value. The age and chemical makeup of a star trillions of lightyears away is not going to cure any diseases right now. The sun isn't going away any time soon either. Plus, I was at the McDonald observatory this summer and they said they can see stars way out there but when you ask about the rovers and stuff on the moon they say they can't find them. 100"+ telescope can't find a JEEP on the moon? Sounds like NASA is the only one that can get pictures but I wouldn't mind seeing them myself.
I'm not very well versed on the other cosmology stuff but I do like the precision of calculations they can do. Also can't wait to see what kind of waves astronomers make in the next 1000 years when the Earth's wobble moves towards the next area for the "north star" and they tell astrologers their constelations no longer match up to the zodiac signs.

I stick to bio because I can argue all kinds of controversial topics.

 

It must take a lot out of you Frank, I mean after all, I did ask a question, an honest question, and you did answer it, which I'll admit, must've taken you the better part of 7 seconds, and I can't imagine the toll that has taken on you.

I completely understand how that would make you "weary".
You poor thing, seriously, get yourself a nice cold drink of water, find a comfy chair and take a rest for a while, whatever you do, don't overdo it. Find an ottoman and see if putting your feet up for a bit might help relieve the weariness.

I know full well how over exerting yourself during these meaningful discussions can literally suck the life out of you, and you've been so engaged and so giving of your time, it's not every day someone comes along and so selflessly gives SO MUCH of his time. I've been truly captivated by your insightful answers, and all the time you donate to the discussions must really be making it hard for you to get any other work done in your daily life, so I understand why you have decided to express your feelings as having "grown weary".


Your choice of words reminds me of Lawrence of Arabia, when he was crossing the Nefud Desert, and at a certain moment during the end of that treacherous journey, in the 140 degree searing heat, you wouldn't be upset with him if he said "I have grown weary and cannot continue", but he doesn't, instead he goes back for Gasim, and saves the day. The parallel here is uncanny.

Take a good rest, catch your breath, recompose yourself, and maybe you'll be back all refreshed at a later date. A cold wet face cloth on your head might help with the weariness as well.

I also offer a heartfelt and sincere "Peace" to you as well.

 

But the answers to the universe and why we are here can be found within the study of quantum mechanics. For instance why is there solid matter to begin with? It didn't just happen by chance, or did it? Something bound all of the elements together. The conversion of matter is around us all of the time. Biology proves that life decays that matter, but to what end? I'm not talking about the math of the subject, just the theory.

 

Oh well we somewhat know what binds elements together on a chemical level, hence chemistry. But forces like gravity are still aren't understood any more than the power they exert. What you are looking for with "what" gravity is would be considered a grand unification theory, the one phrase that tells you everything about it. You'd think gravity is simple, it goes one way and is the sworn enemy of the drunk person but the source will require one of those nearly impossible theories.

When you ask if solid matter began by chance, I'll say no unless you consider forces like gravity because they played a large part in the formation.

I guess you could argue that there was a massive amount of energy that wound up as matter. Only so many combinations of elements could form because of instability. Anything that isn't formed is usually so unstable it decays or destructs almost immediately into the more basic elements. But matter can also be considered too broad of a term when you come down to a level we see every day. "Matter" can range from a bar of gold to a tree, two very distinct objects from a chemical standpoint. At the common level that we observe most elements do not decay(like the gold) but other kinds of stuff does (like the tree). Some elements decay and large complex compounds are destined to decay because of the natural rate of entropy, but the elements themselves can be considered "untouched" by these changes.

Haven't read any of your books or ever taken advanced classes but I can ponder the theories.
Might have to change to a different thread if this keeps up.

 

I don't think we can damage this thread too much, 3/4 of the posts in it have not been on topic Even the OP gave up on it. There are a few that bring their denial of God up every time they get a chance, in any thread that resembles a chance to disrupt it. Then they feed the Christians to the lions, because they don't understand Faith. People always fear what they don't understand. They love to tell us how stupid we are because we believe in a greater cause. It has gotten so repetitive it is really becoming humorous

 

True, we could probably play the random thought game and still not take this any far off than it was before.

I'm not religious but I do dislike when people think it justifies their actions or behavior and I'm more than willing to express it when I think the situation calls for it. I'm sure you remember the last time I did that. I prefer to not type about religious beliefs without an objective point of view because I fall into the "to each their own" category. To me, everyone is a little crazy. Like the song goes, "if I wasn't a little crazy I'd go insane."