Obama supports mosque at Ground Zero
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
Greener, that's where you're wrong. Nobody is in charge of you but you, and that's exactly why religion caters to the weak-minded people of our society.
It's so much easier to throw your arms in the air and say "Well, it's up to God now"
or
"It wasn't meant to be".
Everything good happens, you can "thank God", all the bad stuff, and you can say "Well, it was God's will, it wasn't meant to be".
All of a sudden you are not responsible for the outcome of your life because it's all pre-planned in God's little book, and you just blindly follow along 'hoping' that there will be a place for you in his Kingdom.
I am not God fearing because God to me is a made up construct, along the same lines as Santa and the Tooth Fairy. I'm not saying this to insult you, just letting you know how I view it. There is far too much misery, pain and suffering in the world for me to even think God exists and would purposely do nothing about it.
You & all religious people (all religions) think in irrational concepts which are not based on reality because your mind is poisoned. It is a vicious cycle and very difficult for you to get out of.
Your parents who I am sure are fine people, raised you with what you believe, and in turn, you will raise your children the same way, and on and on it goes.
It takes a lot of courage and questioning to be able to break free from that type of conditioning over the years, and not a lot of people are capable of it.
You know how you hear of people who have had various "Divine" experiences?
Why do you think it is that if you live in Texas your experience will be of Jesus standing at the foot of your bed?
If you're in Northern India and you have a vision, "Indra" will be at the foot of your bed, and if you have a vision in one of the Muslim countries, maybe you'll wake up to Muhammad standing beside you.
Notice how these visions don't ever cross into areas where people don't believe them? Coincidence?
You make it sound like if a person has no God to fear, he will act like a animal, a complete maniac and do what he wants because there are no reprisals, and this is absolutely not true.
I try to live a moral and decent life, give to charity, help my neighbor and pretty much do everything a good Christian would do, the only difference is, I am not condescending and judgmental to people who don't share my POV.
I'm not saying you are, because I've always liked your demeanor, you have a sort of innocence about you and just because I think a lot of what you believe is crazy, I don't think you're a donkey like certain people. Sometimes you blurt out your thoughts and don't hold back, regardless of how crazy it is, and I like that honesty.
Getting back to my point though, just because I don't believe in any higher power, doesn't mean I'm out thieving and stealing', and cheating on my wife etc.
I couldn't even if I wanted to because my conscience is what keeps me in check.
If that's what you call God, then who knows, maybe God is nature, I can go along with that, but the idea of this guy looking down on you and promising you a future is total nonsense.
Your future is now Greener, you've been given a gift of life, something you are enjoying now, and don't waste it hoping for something that will never be because in doing so, you are depriving yourself of the biggest gift of all, the ability to think for yourself and question the world around you.
There's no free lunch, you're not going to Heaven, and you're not going to hell either, just embrace the inevitable and live your life like a decent human being, nothing else matters.
It's so much easier to throw your arms in the air and say "Well, it's up to God now"
or
"It wasn't meant to be".
Everything good happens, you can "thank God", all the bad stuff, and you can say "Well, it was God's will, it wasn't meant to be".
All of a sudden you are not responsible for the outcome of your life because it's all pre-planned in God's little book, and you just blindly follow along 'hoping' that there will be a place for you in his Kingdom.
I am not God fearing because God to me is a made up construct, along the same lines as Santa and the Tooth Fairy. I'm not saying this to insult you, just letting you know how I view it. There is far too much misery, pain and suffering in the world for me to even think God exists and would purposely do nothing about it.
You & all religious people (all religions) think in irrational concepts which are not based on reality because your mind is poisoned. It is a vicious cycle and very difficult for you to get out of.
Your parents who I am sure are fine people, raised you with what you believe, and in turn, you will raise your children the same way, and on and on it goes.
It takes a lot of courage and questioning to be able to break free from that type of conditioning over the years, and not a lot of people are capable of it.
You know how you hear of people who have had various "Divine" experiences?
Why do you think it is that if you live in Texas your experience will be of Jesus standing at the foot of your bed?
If you're in Northern India and you have a vision, "Indra" will be at the foot of your bed, and if you have a vision in one of the Muslim countries, maybe you'll wake up to Muhammad standing beside you.
Notice how these visions don't ever cross into areas where people don't believe them? Coincidence?
You make it sound like if a person has no God to fear, he will act like a animal, a complete maniac and do what he wants because there are no reprisals, and this is absolutely not true.
I try to live a moral and decent life, give to charity, help my neighbor and pretty much do everything a good Christian would do, the only difference is, I am not condescending and judgmental to people who don't share my POV.
I'm not saying you are, because I've always liked your demeanor, you have a sort of innocence about you and just because I think a lot of what you believe is crazy, I don't think you're a donkey like certain people. Sometimes you blurt out your thoughts and don't hold back, regardless of how crazy it is, and I like that honesty.
Getting back to my point though, just because I don't believe in any higher power, doesn't mean I'm out thieving and stealing', and cheating on my wife etc.
I couldn't even if I wanted to because my conscience is what keeps me in check.
If that's what you call God, then who knows, maybe God is nature, I can go along with that, but the idea of this guy looking down on you and promising you a future is total nonsense.
Your future is now Greener, you've been given a gift of life, something you are enjoying now, and don't waste it hoping for something that will never be because in doing so, you are depriving yourself of the biggest gift of all, the ability to think for yourself and question the world around you.
There's no free lunch, you're not going to Heaven, and you're not going to hell either, just embrace the inevitable and live your life like a decent human being, nothing else matters.
If one were an atheist/agnostic, wouldn't it be smarter to be corrupt and maximize thievery ?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 664
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From: Whitehorse, Yukon
As far as WHO gave you life, I think you're asking the wrong question.
"HOW" seems to be the more appropriate question.
Just because we don't know something doesn't mean we should automatically sluff it off on some made-up entitly like God.
That's what I meant primarily from my weak-minded comment. There's all sorts of things we don't know, but just because we don't know them now, doesn't mean the answers won't become available tomorrow.
Don't be so intellectually lazy and blame everything you don't understand on "God". I know it's very convenient to do that, but by doing that, you are sticking your head in the proverbial sand.
When people didn't understand weather patterns, athmospheric preasure etc, and it rained, people would say "Oh look Greener, you didn't eat all your green beans, and now you made God cry"
"See that rain? Those are God's tears, now go finish your dinner and grow up to be a big strong healthy Greener".
Every single thing throughout history which wasn't understood was attributed to "God", until science came along and revealed the truth.
Sure, science is wrong many times, but that's how it works. There's a theory in place until new scientific evidence comes into place and removes the old theory and brings in the new. It is a constantly evolving self-corrective process which is transparent and open. (the complete opposite of religion who makes you feel guilty for daring to ask a question)
If it were up to the great religious minds, our progress would be forever stifled and we would be still living in caves.
Religion does not want you to be smart, it does not want you to ask questions, because it is best served by keeping its believers stupid and in the dark. That is the cadbury secret to why religion is successful.
Keep people stupid, don't let them ask questions, and then we can have our way with them. (I don't mean stupid in life Green, just in religion and from the point of trying to make science your enemy)
As far as you wanting a solid answer to your "chicken or the egg" question, I don't know man, and I don't pretend to know, but I'll let science keep plodding away at the truth because to me it's a lot more credible than being a wishful thinker.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Starkville Mississippi
Fair enough. You can keep believing in science, which is a moving target, and I'll believe that God put us here but he doesn't control every single little aspect of our lives.
And yes you missed it FYI
I do like the nickname Greener though.
And yes you missed it FYI
I do like the nickname Greener though.
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Jim
Jim
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From: Columbia Station, Ohio
#1. I felt somewhat hurt that a Vega actually could pass a human being on a bike.
#2. I didn't know if I should be impressed or saddened that somebody was still driving a mint-condition Vega.
TSC
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From: Whitehorse, Yukon
I'd take a 70 Chevelle SS 454 any day of the week and not feel embarrassed about it
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From: Corona, Crazyfornia
This is off topic for this post, but it seems to be leaning that way.
If you believe God put us here then you have a 50/50 chance of being right.
If you think we evolved from ? then the probability should be somewhere around ten thousand to the millionth power you are right!
I'll go with the 50/50 chance myself, but I guess I'm weak minded.
And now back to our regularly scheduled arguement.
It looks like the state of New York is going to try to give up some public land to build the mosque......so much for separation of church and state! Where is the ACLU when you need them?
If you believe God put us here then you have a 50/50 chance of being right.
If you think we evolved from ? then the probability should be somewhere around ten thousand to the millionth power you are right!
I'll go with the 50/50 chance myself, but I guess I'm weak minded.
And now back to our regularly scheduled arguement.
It looks like the state of New York is going to try to give up some public land to build the mosque......so much for separation of church and state! Where is the ACLU when you need them?
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,895
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From: Starkville Mississippi
Really! Imagine if the state had given the First Methodist Church land to build a church on. It would be an absolute outrage and would be shouted down very quickly. However, when since its islam, the religion of peace, we must be tollerant...right?
Makes sense to me...
Makes sense to me...
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 664
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From: Whitehorse, Yukon
That right there is the mindset of a lot of "Sunday Christians", those with the "nothing to lose" mindset.
They believe that if God exists, then great, it's off to Heaven they go (or hope), and if He doesn't exist, oh well, they lost nothing.
It is an asinine belief and there have been people here on this very forum who admit that it's a valid reason to be a Christian.
I believe that if God does exist, he would probably be sharp enough to see that those people's hearts aren't exactly pure. I don't get the feeling that if the fairy tale in the story book (bible) is true, God would be so easily duped into giving one of these charlatans a free pass into Heaven.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if he's all knowing and all everything, tricking him wouldn't be possible.
Let me ask you this...
Suppose there was a fella who was God fearing, and lived his life according to the bible; didn't steal, cheat, and did all the right things, but deep in his heart, he hated everyone.
He secretly hated minorities, the gays, handicapped, and anyone who was different. However, he kept his hatred bottled up inside and never shared it with anyone.
Would that guy go to heaven? Can you be judged only for your thoughts but not your actions? Because if this guy can get a pass to heaven, then all the fake "Sunday Christian's" are fine, they will definitely get in.
I think if you're a scoundrel, you will be that way whether you believe in God or not. I might be wrong, but I think a lot of people get this idea that if there were no God, the world would be like the movie "Mad Max", where it would just be a free-for-all, and I don't think that's the case at all.
They believe that if God exists, then great, it's off to Heaven they go (or hope), and if He doesn't exist, oh well, they lost nothing.
It is an asinine belief and there have been people here on this very forum who admit that it's a valid reason to be a Christian.
I believe that if God does exist, he would probably be sharp enough to see that those people's hearts aren't exactly pure. I don't get the feeling that if the fairy tale in the story book (bible) is true, God would be so easily duped into giving one of these charlatans a free pass into Heaven.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if he's all knowing and all everything, tricking him wouldn't be possible.
Let me ask you this...
Suppose there was a fella who was God fearing, and lived his life according to the bible; didn't steal, cheat, and did all the right things, but deep in his heart, he hated everyone.
He secretly hated minorities, the gays, handicapped, and anyone who was different. However, he kept his hatred bottled up inside and never shared it with anyone.
Would that guy go to heaven? Can you be judged only for your thoughts but not your actions? Because if this guy can get a pass to heaven, then all the fake "Sunday Christian's" are fine, they will definitely get in.
I think if you're a scoundrel, you will be that way whether you believe in God or not. I might be wrong, but I think a lot of people get this idea that if there were no God, the world would be like the movie "Mad Max", where it would just be a free-for-all, and I don't think that's the case at all.
