I'm not allergic to any "God" or gods man, but I certainly detest hypocrites who claim to be Christians. The ones who love to talk about how loving, dutiful and compassionate they are. I have yet to meet ONE who does not practice hypocrisy to the highest degree. Their willful ignorance of the Bible combined with their two faced idealism to preach it, has definitely made me sick. All these years Biblicists have been lecturing people on the importance of adhering to the Bible’s teachings on ethics, manners, and morality. They quote Jesus and Paul profusely, with a liberal sprinkling of Old Testament moralism. The problem with their approach lies not only in an oft- noted failure to practice what they preach, but an equally pronounced tendency to ignore what the Bible itself, preaches. Christians practice what can only be described as “selective morality”. What they like, they cling to and shove down other’s throats; what they don’t like, they ignore vehemently. That which is palatable and acceptable is supposedly applicable to all; while that which is obnoxious, inconvenient, or self-denying is only applicable to those addressed 2,000 years ago. Their hypocrisy is so rampant that even the validity of calling oneself "Christian" is in question. I see so many people enjoy quoting the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, and some of Paul’s sermons, but don’t even PRETEND to heed other, equally valid, maxims.

 

I examine the Bible with critical inquiry, an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice. But the "God" depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being and thus, undeserving of my worship. Hell, of course, paints the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God as not fit for worshiping. Any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith.

There are many, many more topics that I find objectionable regarding the bible, such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes. But they all violate my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer. In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.

Blue Jay, I am 40 years old, do you really believe that I recently, just woke up one day on the wrong side of bed and decided to read the bible and look up every passage to prove that everybody is wrong and that I am the only one who is right? You may or may not have read about my upbringing but in it I have shared with the world a little bit of my childhood's history. http://www.truckmodcentral.com/forum...ead.php?t=2711 What I don’t mention in it is some of the detailed suffering I also endured due to my aggressors' Christian "values". My mother, priest and professors at the Catholic school I attended from age 4 to age 15, not only physically beat the Bible on my head but also literally into my head. Every morning for an hour, Monday through Friday, it was in the schools’ curriculum to teach the Bible as "History and Literature".

I was only 10 years old at the time but I still vividly remember one of the many times that I was tortured for questioning "God". My professor was leading us/me to believe that according to the Bible, human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and that the only way to cleanse our souls was through infant baptism. He also went further into saying that if a child died before being baptized they would never see the kingdom of God. Since I was ordered to study the Bible every day by my mother, priest and professors, I remembered running across a verse in Deuteronomy 24:16, that said "children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers." I also remembered, reading that Jesus said "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Matthew 19:14 Moreover I also recalled that John the Baptist, baptized many "adults", (not children) amongst those "adults" was Jesus himself who after being baptized by John the Baptist said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

Armed with said information I raised my hand, when the professor gave me the opportunity to speak I sited said verses to him. He hastily walked towards me, placing the tip of his nose against mine he asked me in an angry voice, "BOY, ARE YOU QUESTIONING ME!? WORSE YET, ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE LORD OUR GOD!? Fear consumed my 10 year old bony body as I attempted to say "no sir" but I only had the opportunity to lightly nod my head no, once. I suddenly felt a fire like sensation burning through my left cheek then my right as he continued to slap my face countless times. Following the physical abuse he continued his torture ordering me to kneel in front of the classroom facing the chalk board while holding the heavy Bible in my little hands up in the air. At the same time I was also ordered to pray for an hour and ask for forgiveness, for I had sinned by questioning authority. Every time I attempted to rest my arms he would use a 3/8” thick piece of rope as a weapon to inflict more pain on my 10 year old body.

I suffered similar countless punishments through my childhood years because of the thousands of errancies and contradictions I encountered throughout the Bible. All I asked, was for my superiors to guide me in understanding what I was reading. But all I got was hits on the head with the Bible and orders to pray for forgiveness due to my constantly questioning authority.

Not that I wasn't a "true" believer at the age of 12 but I began to pray every opportunity I got and asked God to guide me in understanding his "sacred" writings. I thought he did, when I paid closer attention to these words Jesus spoke:

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen; it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)

And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13)

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14)

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16)

During my childhood years, my innocence only allowed me to truly believe wholeheartedly; I honestly and truthfully read those quotes and I clearly saw that Jesus was not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says God will grant ALL your prayers. I prayed as Jesus recommended and beg every day that my aggressors would see the good in me and love me for who I truly was (a harmless and innocent 4,5,6,7,8,910,11,12,13,14.... year old boy). But no matter how faithfully I prayed and how much I believed, my prayers were never answered. I truly believed and honestly asked in the name of Jesus to move the mountains (my aggressors) but they were never moved, I seek but never found; I knocked but the door never opened, I asked, but never received. But I still blindly believe and couldn’t grasp the concept that is clear to me now; God doesn’t grant prayers and which proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.

By the age of 14, I had read the Bible, against my will, countless times from Genesis 1:1 to Revelations 22:21. I'm not claiming to be a Biblical expert, no not at all. On the contrary, I could never become one as you well know, I tend to use critical thinking when it comes to examining the Bible. Could be that such a powerful and useful tool prevents me from accept the Bible as the "true word of God". We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?

It was not until the age of 26 that I came to grips with myself and concluded that the idea of a higher power is not probable in light of current scientific data. I could not find the Biblical God fit for worship any longer. But my lack of a religious belief doesn't stop me from supporting a world free from superstition, from irrational religious guilt, from unreasoning fears of hell and damnation, from religious bigotry, intolerance and oppression, and from religious wars. No longer do I rely on authority, or "inner knowing", or any form of anecdotal, so called evidence. When it comes to what to believe regarding the universe, I now rely strongly on the scientific method in order to discover, NOT what is right or wrong, NOT what is good or evil, but only, based on the empirical evidence, what appears to be true or false. Science has proven itself over and over to be the most powerful tool we have ever discovered for understanding how our bodies, our world and our universe works-not the way we might want things to work, but the way things actually work. Thus I am now committed to the application of reason, science and compassion for the solving of human problems rather than relying on supernatural answers or religious dogmas.

 

"ALL scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16)

If the old testament is only applicable to those addressed 2,000 years ago then why are the 10 Commandments still being quoted? Plus, aren’t the Ten Commandments part of the Old Law? Or are we obligated to follow them because they are reported in the NT (Matthew 19:16-18, Mark 10:17-19 & Luke 18:18-22).

If that's the case then the Old Testament is not to be ignored. All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17) If sin is transgression of the law, as 1 John 3:4 says, then you should be following all of the Old Law.

Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other than Jesus said so.
"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19)

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He doesn't have the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (Mark.7:9-13) "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. (1 Peter 2:18)

"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

"...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

All of these rules are part of the Old Covenant and of equal importance. Why quote the Ten Commandments and ignore other tenets? A believer’s obligation to one is no less than his obligation to all. In fact, if under the New Covenant Christians have stepped into the shoes of the Israelites and become, in effect, the "new Chosen People", then they should inherit all the privileges and duties of that office. They seem to want the former but not the latter. Biblicists teach, preach, and attempt to reach others with moralism, but are not averse to selectively using that which suits their interests.

Attempting to disregard the old testament is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Preachers spoon feed, that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. Thus manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God.

 

Edited for personal reasons. Have a great day

 

Well........sounds like you went through the opposite of what I went through. You started as a none believer and ended up a believer. I started being a believer and ended not believing.

Don't you think though that anyone who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for God’s existence is proposing a double standard? Because there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called "factual" book?

 

As bad as the Christian's are for that, and as much as I love ripping on them, the rest of the religions are just as bad.

It's all the same crap, just in a different wrapper.

Everyone thinks they are smarter, wiser than the next, and in reality it's all just a giant crock of nonsense believed by weak-minded people who are unable to face reality without a crutch.

Habs

 

As I said before, I'm not good at quoting scripture. I'm sure you know the verse I am talking about when I say "People follow the God of their father's"
I think it is in Jeramiah, or Zackeriah.
When you post about religion, it alway makes me think about Ray Stephens, and the Mississippi Squriel.

 

Abrahams Famiy split in the Old Testament, Allah and our God is one and the same. The followers of Allah, are the ones that were cheated from their birthright. If you look at my sig you will see the Crocadile on the left side. It represents Haggar, the Mother of Ishmael.

The Hebrew symbols on the right, is my interpretation of Time knows the beginning.

 

Off topic but wow this is a pretty in depth topic for 2-4am...

 

Its OK, no need to apologize, but don't get me wrong either, I'm not this "evil force", some people think I am, whose only purpose for reading the Bible is to look for contradictions "to prove someone wrong". On a deferent note though I do examine the Bible with critical inquiry to prove me, "right". But that doesn't fog my mind in understanding why you're still holding strong in believing that cosmic theology is at work, that a Creator established the world with some ultimate goal in mind, that everything that happens happens for a purpose, and that humans are on Earth to fulfill an ultimate cosmic plan. Your belief system is nothing new; cosmic theology has been the center of almost all ideologies, philosophies, and religions, past and present.

We still live in a world that is very religious, despite modern science. Scientific-technological revolution has invaded our lives at almost every level, discrediting a number of ancient religious myths. Yet religions still flourish, religious loyalties still persist. Why? Because humans still fear pain and loneliness, and most still find it hard to accept death as finality. We still marvel at how this universe and life ultimately came into being. Most of us look for some ultimate meaning or divine purpose to our lives. But Logic and scientific evidence are often not enough to dislodge personal beliefs and prejudices, particularly if these beliefs offer great comfort.

Nevertheless, from a humanist perspective, religions have many positive aspects. Many who share your religious values have brought about much comfort and solace to people in pain and despair. Religious faiths have helped to hold communities together during difficult times, providing moral stability and helping humankind behave well toward each other. Religions have conferred meaning and dignity upon the lowliest existence and have kept the poor (said Napoleon) from murdering the rich. Since the natural inequity of humans dooms many of us to poverty, sickness and defeat, some supernatural hope is often our only alternative to despair.

There is also no question that much church effort worldwide has been directed toward aiding the poor, elderly and handicapped, maintaining child care centers, providing drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs, assisting the victims of AIDS and which help the less fortunate are rooted in religious teachings, as are the humanitarian efforts of millions of good and decent people (like yourself). Here in the U.S. alone, churches give millions of dollars in aid to the homeless. Also, many minister, rabbis, and priests have been at the forefront of civil rights movements, campaigns for disarmament, and struggles for economic equality, and campaigning to save the planet from being environmentally trashed through greed. Some have even been killed for their efforts. Let me not fail to mention of course, religious faiths have been responsible for beautiful architecture, music, painting, sculpture, prose and poetry. Certainly any religious faith that results in more love, joy, compassion, inner peace and good works is to be applauded.

Never take for granted the freedom you have to be proud of expressing your religious belief.

Take care.

Leonardo.

 

Ding ding ding!

 

I am an ordained minister, and I was raised Methodist, I have also studied Catholocism as well as many other denominations of Christianity and other religions. I do not think that I am smarter than anyone else, and I do not think that anyone is "right" or "wrong" about what they choose to believe. That is up to the person. I have a very simplistic view of my religion, it is my belief after reading the Bible many times in it's entirety and the teachings of Jesus that John 3:16 rings the loudest. I believe that Jesus died for our sins. I believe that if I accept that and believe in Him, I am saved. I do not believe that you have to do anything else at all, no church, no ten commandments, no "law", all you have to do is believe in Jesus. John 3:16 does end with "except if a woman wears pants or you break a commandment" or anything else. I think that Jesus came to release us from the old laws and anything else. That is just my personal view of this, and like I said, I do not think anyone else is "right" or "wrong", as neither am I, it's up to each person to work out their own salvation or lack thereof. I respect everyone's view. I will not argue my view against anyone else's, unless they have a ludicrous view of something and they are completely misinformed. Even then, them being misinformed is my opinion, and I will respect their view.

 

My favorite 'misinformed' tale involved a Governor of Texas in the 1930's arguing against catoring to Hispanic kids in Public schools.
Yes, they have been arguing it for over eighty years.

Anyway, the Governor is at the podium and with a Bible raised in each hand, exclaimed:

"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for Texas!"

 

Sounds good to me, I fail to see your point!

 

That kind of indepth analysis is probably how he got to be Gov, heck you probably voted for him.