Oh man I overslept and NCSU beat me to it.

But anyway, jgger, see what I mean; I ask questions and none are answered. I question so I can learn what I never could when I was forced to read the bible at an early age. Why must you feel "attacked" when others or I ask questions. We ask questions because we have the need to expand our knowledge.

We quote sporadic Biblical verses because "True" believers assure us they know the Bible is the true world of god and understand it because they have been blessed with "faith". Well, I've been very unfortunate to receiving this gift for whatever reason but isn't it your responsibility (speaking in general terms) to help your fellow man and guide him in the right directions? Or, as you said before, I'm going in a circle and back to my beginning in which my superiors felt threatened every time I asked questions. But all I got was to shut me up and kneel to pray for forgiveness for I have offended the gods?

Does it all boil down to what I am told repeatedly (since the age of 4 to present) by "true believer"? "It is not for us to question the power and works of the Lord. If God says so, that' it! How arrogant of you to question God!" And the same explanation I hear here is what I'm been told multiple times. "Things were very tough back then and required strong measures. Besides, the wisdom of the Lord can only understood by the spiritual man. The unsaved just cannot understand these matters." So "they" (not me) go on quoting the Bible on (1 Corinthians 2:13) and (Mark 9:12) "In fact, you are danger of going to hell for such blasphemy.

Does it all boil down once again to ("Lot escape for "your" life.")?

I ask, if you believe in the Biblical God, do you believe this invisible God is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just; a personal God who experiences all of the emotions a human does; is all-knowing; sees everything past and future; created all the laws of nature and can change anything by an act of will?

Do you also believe his creation was originally perfect, but humans, by disobeying him, brought imperfection into the his perfect world?

Humans are evil and sinful, and must suffer in his now imperfect world (created by humans) because of their sinfulness?

God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake?

All humans who choose not to accept this forgiveness must go to hell and be tormented for eternity?

 

God gives us free will. He lets you know his plan of salvation and lets you decide whether to follow him or not. No need to argue, you either believe or you dont. We can quote all the scripture we want but if someone doesnt believe in the bible it doesnt help our point. Leo my friend I know your story and I have been praying for you for quite some time. Not only for healing but for you to have peace with God. The way the world is now is because of sin, not because God wanted it that way. Faith truly is blind, wether it be in God or man. I put mine in God.

 

I am also going to have to leave this discussion but not because I have anything against anyone here. I have a ton (not all that much of an exaggeration) of work to do and, frankly, I have serious doubts anything I have to say is going to change any minds so why expend the effort when I need to be expending it on something productive? Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I am not the one who anyone will have to answer to. Just so there is no doubt in anyone's mind, I do believe in a Biblical God and that He is a kind, just, omniscient, and omnipotent God (yes, I do know what the big words mean; I'm not parroting them). I believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins. I also believe the Bible, as we have it now, is not complete or accurate but I have faith that enough can be gleaned from what we do have to know how to live our lives the way God wants us to. I do not always understand why God has done things the way he has but I do not question God nor why He has done what He has done. The following passage explains one reason why I feel that way:

Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, "What are you making?' Does your work say, "He has no hands'?
Isa 45:10 Woe to him who says to his father, "What have you begotten?' or to his mother, "What have you brought to birth?'
Isa 45:11 "This is what the LORD says— the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?

Who the hell are we to question someone superior to us?

Bye, all, and the best of everything to all of you.

 

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Yes I do see what you mean, but sometimes the amount of questions make giving an answer like herding chickens with a hoop!

Part of the issue is being "forced"to read the bible, you know the old saying-you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Attacked? I don't feel attacked, nor do I think I have attacked anyone else here. If I came across that way forgive me.

Is this not the same thing you detest in sham preachers? Many of the verses you quote could be made clearer by reading before and after that verse to understand the context in which it is presented. Be honest with yourself (big picture vs little picture)

That is what I'm shootin' for!

Re-read your posts and see if they haven't taken a turn-maybe I'm wrong (it could happen!)

Last part, no don't shut up, This discussion has been good for alot of people IMHO. As long as we keep things civil, and they have been so far, we can go on 'till the cows come home!

Pretty much-spiritually speaking-That is a personal matter between a man and his maker. What seems to get clouded here is some of us are talking about God and some about religion, they're two different things. The issues you have had seem to be against Religion and you are blaming God. Religion is man made so it is destined to be imperfect, that why I am not a big supporter of "churches",but I do encourage anyone to truley seek God. Sometimes we have to make ourselves look at things from different perspectives which would not considering ourself as the "top of the food chain". I think that is why they call it RE-search!

The lesson that they tried to teach you in school was that of submission, as we should be submissive to God. The way they tried to teach it was waaaaaaaaay off the reservation-and they should have known better.

 

Ttt

 

This guy sums it up quite nicely:

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbJ4CPWi_pg