OKAY, Hear Me Out
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From: Whitehorse, Yukon
In the "sacred Bible, the word of "God" states in Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
How am misinterpreting this verse or taking it out of context when I say that any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith?
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
How am misinterpreting this verse or taking it out of context when I say that any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith?
The small print says they can refuse to answer that under the "pearls before swine" clause.
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From: >wwOwww<
Let me begin by say this: My wife often tells people to beware of me cause I am the kind of person if asked what time it is, I would not only tell the time but I would also give information about who invented the watch, why was it invented, when was it invented, how time has changed history and will continue to change history and ..... In some way My wife's analogy is correct, I do tend to ask a lot questions and give detailed answers of what I think I know.
In some way My wife's analogy is correct, I do tend to ask a lot questions and give detailed answers of what I think I know.The drum roll please, I'm hanging on the edge of my seat!!!
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From: >wwOwww<
When I look at a person with a big forehead and 2 matching eyes, it looks like they're missing a 3rd eye. Sounds like I'm saying something scientific, but really I'm just making stuff up. While that works for Religion, if you 'make up' science, you'll be found out sooner or later.
I'm one of the elemenatary students, that looked at a map and said "That looks like it fit togehter at one time.
However, you sitting there in elementary school saying "it looks like it fits" doesn't mean anything since you have nothing to back up your claim. You were right only by accident. If I determined what "true" about Christianity from these discussions, I'm sure I'd come to far different conclusions than you, but the difference is, neither of us have any way to really back up our claims.
- NCSU
Last edited by NCSU_05_FX4; Jul 3, 2010 at 11:27 PM.
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From: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
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From: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
That was not anything I claim to be true. If you read the statement I made without casting me in a B class science fiction movie, you'll realize. I have "curious ideas", as a teacher once put it.
I'm one of the elemenatary students, that looked at a map and said "That looks like it fit togehter at one time.
I'm one of the elemenatary students, that looked at a map and said "That looks like it fit togehter at one time.
Ok, when I get this loopy, it's past my bedtime.
Nachty nacht.
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From: >wwOwww<
And by using science, plate tectonics, logical reasoning, chemical analysis and a bunch of other, repeatable, independently verifiable methods, we came to a consensus that yes, at one time the map did "fit together". That's a far cry from how Religion determines their "truths".
However, you sitting there in elementary school saying "it looks like it fits" doesn't mean anything since you have nothing to back up your claim. You were right only by accident. If I determined what "true" about Christianity from these discussions, I'm sure I'd come to far different conclusions than you, but the difference is, neither of us have any way to really back up our claims.
- NCSU
However, you sitting there in elementary school saying "it looks like it fits" doesn't mean anything since you have nothing to back up your claim. You were right only by accident. If I determined what "true" about Christianity from these discussions, I'm sure I'd come to far different conclusions than you, but the difference is, neither of us have any way to really back up our claims.
- NCSU
Originally Posted by OGTerror
Let me begin by say this: My wife often tells people to beware of me cause I am the kind of person if asked what time it is, I would not only tell the time but I would also give information about who invented the watch, why was it invented, when was it invented, how time has changed history and will continue to change history and ..... In some way My wife's analogy is correct, I do tend to ask a lot questions and give detailed answers of what I think I know.
Let me begin by say this: My wife often tells people to beware of me cause I am the kind of person if asked what time it is, I would not only tell the time but I would also give information about who invented the watch, why was it invented, when was it invented, how time has changed history and will continue to change history and ..... In some way My wife's analogy is correct, I do tend to ask a lot questions and give detailed answers of what I think I know.
The drum roll please, I'm hanging on the edge of my seat!!!
Today 09:25 PM
Today 09:25 PM
Please?
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From: >wwOwww<
And by using science, plate tectonics, logical reasoning, chemical analysis and a bunch of other, repeatable, independently verifiable methods, we came to a consensus that yes, at one time the map did "fit together". That's a far cry from how Religion determines their "truths".
However, you sitting there in elementary school saying "it looks like it fits" doesn't mean anything since you have nothing to back up your claim. You were right only by accident. If I determined what "true" about Christianity from these discussions, I'm sure I'd come to far different conclusions than you, but the difference is, neither of us have any way to really back up our claims.
- NCSU
However, you sitting there in elementary school saying "it looks like it fits" doesn't mean anything since you have nothing to back up your claim. You were right only by accident. If I determined what "true" about Christianity from these discussions, I'm sure I'd come to far different conclusions than you, but the difference is, neither of us have any way to really back up our claims.
- NCSU
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
Oh, pardon me :o by using my wife's analogy I didn't mean that you should fear me, instead I meant to use her analogy that she is right I do ask a lot of question due to my inquisitive nature. I guess I was asking for your forgiveness before hand if I asked you too many question. Asking questions it is my only way of knowing.
Here are the questions again.
Moving on, according to faithful believers there is only one "God" one Jesus and one Bible, yet there are thousand upon thousand of denominations world wide who call themselves "Christian" and every one of them claim to have the "great truth" and they can prove it from their Bibles, as you, can understand.
You understand the Bible in its entirety or only part of the Bible?
You know the Bible is the word of God in its entirety as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 or only part of the Bible is the word of God?
Here are the questions again.
Moving on, according to faithful believers there is only one "God" one Jesus and one Bible, yet there are thousand upon thousand of denominations world wide who call themselves "Christian" and every one of them claim to have the "great truth" and they can prove it from their Bibles, as you, can understand.
man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true.
Francis Bacon
Francis Bacon
You know the Bible is the word of God in its entirety as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 or only part of the Bible is the word of God?
Last edited by OGTerror; Jul 4, 2010 at 05:12 AM.
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From: western washington
WOW!!! 
........
....I wonder if Jesus ever says to himself in retrospect, "Holy Jesus, did I say that?!".
Jesus says he is the only way to salvation yet he purposely disillusions us so that we will go to hell.
Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, "lest . . . they . . . should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.... Matthew 13:10-15
Jesus even explains that he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12
Jesus says that those who have been less fortunate in this life will have it even worse in the life to come. Mark 4:25
Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Couldn't Jesus simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. Mark 5:12-13
Man oh man, this is called animal abuse. I need to send this one to The Humane Society of the United States of America.
............I wonder if Jesus ever says to himself in retrospect, "Holy Jesus, did I say that?!".Jesus says he is the only way to salvation yet he purposely disillusions us so that we will go to hell.
Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, "lest . . . they . . . should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.... Matthew 13:10-15
Jesus even explains that he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12
Jesus says that those who have been less fortunate in this life will have it even worse in the life to come. Mark 4:25Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Couldn't Jesus simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. Mark 5:12-13
Man oh man, this is called animal abuse. I need to send this one to The Humane Society of the United States of America.
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From: Corona, Crazyfornia
OG I'm getting confused help me out.
You started this thread with a quote from me:
Then a couple of posts later you shared some of your terrible childhood experiences:
and:
Now stick with me here (remember I'm old) then later you post:
So the way I see it, correct me if I'm wrong,Your prayers were answered-just not in your time frame. Then you quote revelation to show how bad you think God is-were not those who abused you God's children? Do they not deserve such a punishment?
It seems to me you can't burn the candle from both ends. Using your logic if the punishment is too harsh then who is to say you weren't treated properly (I don't believe you were, so don't take me wrong here). Where do you draw the line, anything goes is not freedom it's anarchy!
It seems you have gone full circle in trying to make your case and are arguing from both sides. Maybe ask fewer questions and examine them deeper.
Oh yea if your bible is in Spanish-that could be the problem......it might be the Cheech and Chong version!
You started this thread with a quote from me:
Originally Posted by jgger
Put that in there just for you OG. To me you are a very interesting person and I'm trying to figure out what your allergy to GOD is. I read most of your posts and you seem to be a pretty sharp guy. But sometimes it seems that you throw a bunch of stuff against the wall to either avoid the issue or just to instigate. IDK!Hang in there buddy we'll get you straightened out eventually!
Put that in there just for you OG. To me you are a very interesting person and I'm trying to figure out what your allergy to GOD is. I read most of your posts and you seem to be a pretty sharp guy. But sometimes it seems that you throw a bunch of stuff against the wall to either avoid the issue or just to instigate. IDK!Hang in there buddy we'll get you straightened out eventually!
I was only 10 years old at the time but I still vividly remember one of the many times that I was tortured for questioning "God". My professor was leading us/me to believe that according to the Bible, human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and that the only way to cleanse our souls was through infant baptism. He also went further into saying that if a child died before being baptized they would never see the kingdom of God. Since I was ordered to study the Bible every day by my mother, priest and professors, I remembered running across a verse in Deuteronomy 24:16, that said "children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers." I also remembered, reading that Jesus said "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Matthew 19:14 Moreover I also recalled that John the Baptist, baptized many "adults", (not children) amongst those "adults" was Jesus himself who after being baptized by John the Baptist said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16
Armed with said information I raised my hand, when the professor gave me the opportunity to speak I sited said verses to him. He hastily walked towards me, placing the tip of his nose against mine he asked me in an angry voice, "BOY, ARE YOU QUESTIONING ME!? WORSE YET, ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE LORD OUR GOD!? Fear consumed my 10 year old bony body as I attempted to say "no sir" but I only had the opportunity to lightly nod my head no, ones. I suddenly felt a fire like sensation burning through my left cheek then my right as he continued to slap my face countless times. Following the physical abuse he continued his torture ordering me to kneel in front of the classroom facing the chalk board while holding the heavy Bible in my little hands up in the air. At the same time I was also ordered to pray for an hour and ask for forgiveness, for I had sinned by questioning authority. Every time I attempted to rest my arms he would use a 3/8” thick piece of rope as a weapon to inflict more pain on my 10 year old body.
Armed with said information I raised my hand, when the professor gave me the opportunity to speak I sited said verses to him. He hastily walked towards me, placing the tip of his nose against mine he asked me in an angry voice, "BOY, ARE YOU QUESTIONING ME!? WORSE YET, ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE LORD OUR GOD!? Fear consumed my 10 year old bony body as I attempted to say "no sir" but I only had the opportunity to lightly nod my head no, ones. I suddenly felt a fire like sensation burning through my left cheek then my right as he continued to slap my face countless times. Following the physical abuse he continued his torture ordering me to kneel in front of the classroom facing the chalk board while holding the heavy Bible in my little hands up in the air. At the same time I was also ordered to pray for an hour and ask for forgiveness, for I had sinned by questioning authority. Every time I attempted to rest my arms he would use a 3/8” thick piece of rope as a weapon to inflict more pain on my 10 year old body.
During my childhood years, my innocence only allowed me to truly believe wholeheartedly; I honestly and truthfully read those quotes and I clearly saw that Jesus was not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says God will grant ALL your prayers. I prayed as Jesus recommended and beg every day that my aggressors would see the good in me and love me for who I truly was (a harmless and innocent 4,5,6,7,8,910,11,12,13,14.... year old boy). But no matter how faithfully I prayed and how much I believed, my prayers were never answered. I truly believed and honestly asked in the name of Jesus to move the mountains (my aggressors) but they were never moved, I seek but never found; I knocked but the door never opened, I asked, but never received. But I still blindly believe and couldn’t grasp the concept that is clear to me now; God doesn’t grant prayers and which proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.
In the "sacred Bible, the word of "God" states in Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
How am misinterpreting this verse or taking it out of context when I say that any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith?
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
How am misinterpreting this verse or taking it out of context when I say that any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith?
It seems to me you can't burn the candle from both ends. Using your logic if the punishment is too harsh then who is to say you weren't treated properly (I don't believe you were, so don't take me wrong here). Where do you draw the line, anything goes is not freedom it's anarchy!
It seems you have gone full circle in trying to make your case and are arguing from both sides. Maybe ask fewer questions and examine them deeper.
Oh yea if your bible is in Spanish-that could be the problem......it might be the Cheech and Chong version!
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
Sure, I'd happy to, which way did you come in? 
Good question, now that I think about it I don't know if my prayers were finally answered at the age of 19 when I made the tough decision to abandon everything.
As a matter of fact I could never proof that my prayers were answered, like wise I could never proof they were not answered. What if I had been exposed to the same cruelties without religion being involved but the end result was the same. Such a claim that prayers are answered is impossible to really test beacuse of all the uncontrolled variables and built-in non-falsifiability.
For example, assume that after much praying to "God" for recovery, the loved one still dies of, say, cancer. The following possibilities come in mind.
A. God doesn't answer prayers because a personal go doesn't even exist.
B. God only answers prayers for courage to get through hardships, not prayers that would change God's master plan for us, or would change the workings of God's laws.
C. God didn't answer this prayer because the faith of those who prayed wasn't strong enough.
D. Did answer the prayer and the answer was "NO!" Cod makes all things work out for the best.
E.God doesn't answer prayers unless people come to God in the name of His son, the Messiah (John 14:6)
Attempting to design a controlled experiment to determine which of these possibilities, if any, might be the correct one, becomes impossible, since they're all basically non-falsifiable. For example, no matter how strong ones' faith was, it could always have been stronger. And how can anyone ever possibly know if things have worked out for the best? All we know is what actually happen.
I quoted Revelations and posted it as a question. Explain it to me, not that I don't know what it means, but everybody tells me I am misinterpreting it. OK, if I am misinterpreting it then give me the proper interpretation.
As I said before, I am now committed to the application of reason, science and compassion for the solving of human problems rather than relying on supernatural answers or religious dogmas. I doesn't matter how much a person hurts me or my loved ONE, never would I wish him/her eternal suffering in a lake of chemical substances. Worse yet if I were a "Christian" I would never wish them eternal suffering of hell and damnation.
I cannot proof or disprove that an "invisible God" exist which is the reason I seek answers. I do ask question but as usual none are answered. Here are the resent ones, post 155, 172, 178, and 180. Instead of the faithful answering my questions and attempt to guide me in the right direction, they read through my post looking for a grammatical or spelling error or whatever they can call me out on.
Don't worry I'm using the English Bible on this forum, the Spanish I only use on the Mexicans, cause they too ask me about my religious believe or lack of it.
So here is a question for you.
Do you believe in the Biblical God?
As a matter of fact I could never proof that my prayers were answered, like wise I could never proof they were not answered. What if I had been exposed to the same cruelties without religion being involved but the end result was the same. Such a claim that prayers are answered is impossible to really test beacuse of all the uncontrolled variables and built-in non-falsifiability.
For example, assume that after much praying to "God" for recovery, the loved one still dies of, say, cancer. The following possibilities come in mind.
A. God doesn't answer prayers because a personal go doesn't even exist.
B. God only answers prayers for courage to get through hardships, not prayers that would change God's master plan for us, or would change the workings of God's laws.
C. God didn't answer this prayer because the faith of those who prayed wasn't strong enough.
D. Did answer the prayer and the answer was "NO!" Cod makes all things work out for the best.
E.God doesn't answer prayers unless people come to God in the name of His son, the Messiah (John 14:6)
Attempting to design a controlled experiment to determine which of these possibilities, if any, might be the correct one, becomes impossible, since they're all basically non-falsifiable. For example, no matter how strong ones' faith was, it could always have been stronger. And how can anyone ever possibly know if things have worked out for the best? All we know is what actually happen.
Then you quote revelation to show how bad you think God is-were not those who abused you God's children? Do they not deserve such a punishment?
It seems to me you can't burn the candle from both ends. Using your logic if the punishment is too harsh then who is to say you weren't treated properly (I don't believe you were, so don't take me wrong here). Where do you draw the line, anything goes is not freedom it's anarchy!
It seems to me you can't burn the candle from both ends. Using your logic if the punishment is too harsh then who is to say you weren't treated properly (I don't believe you were, so don't take me wrong here). Where do you draw the line, anything goes is not freedom it's anarchy!
As I said before, I am now committed to the application of reason, science and compassion for the solving of human problems rather than relying on supernatural answers or religious dogmas. I doesn't matter how much a person hurts me or my loved ONE, never would I wish him/her eternal suffering in a lake of chemical substances. Worse yet if I were a "Christian" I would never wish them eternal suffering of hell and damnation.
Don't worry I'm using the English Bible on this forum, the Spanish I only use on the Mexicans, cause they too ask me about my religious believe or lack of it.
So here is a question for you.
Do you believe in the Biblical God?
Last edited by OGTerror; Jul 4, 2010 at 05:16 AM.
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From: >wwOwww<
Oh, pardon me :o by using my wife's analogy I didn't mean that you should fear me, instead I meant to use her analogy that she is right I do ask a lot of question due to my inquisitive nature. I guess I was asking for your forgiveness before hand if I asked you too many question. Asking questions it is my only way of knowing.
Don't worry about me though I googled it!! There were several interpretations of who invented the watch, but was not one text that had all of the facts in one place. So I didn't know which one to believe.
I was hoping you could cast a pearl of wisdom to a swine.
I'm much better now, I was sleep deprived at that time, and not knowing was torchering my soul. I awakened a few minutes ago, and relieved to find my prayers were answered, and my anxiety was gone. I accepted the fact, that many paople contributed to the invention over a period of time.
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
It was written before me, so I concidered it to be the word of OGTerror, or it would not have been written.
Don't worry about me though I googled it!! There were several interpretations of who invented the watch, but was not one text that had all of the facts in one place. So I didn't know which one to believe.
I was hoping you could cast a pearl of wisdom to a swine.
I'm much better now, I was sleep deprived at that time, and not knowing was torchering my soul. I awakened a few minutes ago, and relieved to find my prayers were answered, and my anxiety was gone. I accepted the fact, that many paople contributed to the invention over a period of time.
Don't worry about me though I googled it!! There were several interpretations of who invented the watch, but was not one text that had all of the facts in one place. So I didn't know which one to believe.
I was hoping you could cast a pearl of wisdom to a swine.
I'm much better now, I was sleep deprived at that time, and not knowing was torchering my soul. I awakened a few minutes ago, and relieved to find my prayers were answered, and my anxiety was gone. I accepted the fact, that many paople contributed to the invention over a period of time.
At any rate that wasn't my question but good job on avoiding the questions, you did good, congrats.
