It is not a question of giving up. It is a question of knowing reality. Og will be handled by one with the ability to do so. That just happens to not be me.

If you beat your head against a wall over and over again, but expect a different result. You are the one that has a problem.
I don't give up I am watching the result of his ideals unfold here on this forum. I'm a patient person. Time will show me, as it has in the past.

 

OG- I would have to give you the point on Tammy Fae. I actually think if you chiseled off all her make up you might find Jimmie Hoffa!

However... to use her as a beacon of virtue is about the same as using Al Gore as a litmus test for scientific genius!

You seem to have a pretty good ability to find things in the Bible, and that is a good thing. Now stay with me here, this is where I think you are looking at the small picture as I said before. You use it (the Bible) to point out things you find wrong with other people-pretty much the same way televangelist use it. Prehaps the better way would be to look to see where it parallels YOUR life or lifestyle-that is what it is intended for. Nobody has the power to MAKE you think one way or another, that is each person's personal choice, and it's free! By the same token to follow blindly what someone else says is stupidity. I think you and I can agree on that. To use the Bible to beat a person into submission WRONG! To use it as a tool to help guide someone is what it is for, it is a guide book.

We can probably go on and on about this until the cows come home, and I don't mind doing that with you. But this thread is supposed to be about Border saftey in Arizona and I think we have taken it WAY off track. Some may be getting a kick out of this and some may be bored to death. Either way we should respect the OP and continue this elsewhere.

If you would like to start another thread on our little topic I would be glad to join you there.

BTW thanks for the invite to the BBQ but I don't think I can make it. Unemployed right now and gas money is precious. You can PM me if you want to have at it in another thread.

Thanks Jim

 

Maybe because unlike you, I examine the Bible with critical inquiry, an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice. But the "God" depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being and thus, undeserving of my worship. Hell, of course, paints the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God as not fit for worshiping. Any true loving being, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness, would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially for something as menial as lack of faith.

There are many, many more topics that I find objectionable regarding the bible, such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes. But they all violate my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer. In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.

 

Yes you're right about derailing the thread but when I'm asked a question I like to explain myself as you can see.

So, as you said, to respect the OP, please don't ask me anymore religious questions and I will refrain myself from touching on the subject in this particular thread.

My apologies to the OP for derailing the thread.

Lets continue.

 

Cool!

 

So what I gathered from you previous statement is that if the Conservative party was in power, we would not have an illegal immigration problem.

Or what do you mean by "Does voting the hypocritical-lying ***tards out of office change things.....that is our only chance!"

 

Party politics is a BIG part of the problem.
Conservative isn't a party the way I see it, it's an ideal. Yes we need a more conservative government. One that has the ability to follow our laws and constitution, not twist everything. Like Clinton said "it depends on what the deffinition of is, is. That kind of thinking has got to go.

Voting the lying hypocritical ***tards (use your own prefix-bas or re) is the way our system is supposed to work. If they are not responsive to the people then they gotta go. Nobody ever really wins a revolution, that is what I mean by our only chance.

I wish pepole would pay more attention to what goes on between elections and not the fluff we get at election time.

Any clearer? Remember I type slow so go easy on me! ha ha

 

Lol yeah I'll keep that in mind.

Well as I said b4 I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican, I detest both equally. But you know that voting the "right" person into office who will take charge is just plain wishful thinking in our part, it will never happen. That is why I say, we the people need to take matters into our own hands.

You say that my idea of boycotting everything around our neighborhood is silly. Aren't we all complaining that businesses are the major contributers to our illegal problems. We know for darn sure the government isn't going to take charge and fine each and every business who hire illegal aliens. But we can, we the people of the united states of American can make that change.

 

On another note, it is not for you to know or for me to say out loud, but here it goes. When we combine my wife's and my income we are in the HIGHEST tax bracket, 35% is what the government steals from us each and every year. Every year my wife and I are panicking and wondering which stock we have to sell in order to pay off the Government beside what we already payed quarterly. Just last year we had to come up with 45 thousand dollars or else, well or els we go to jail. How ironic, if the victim doesn't give up the money to the thief he is the one who will face incarceration.

At the end of each and every year, almost half of our pay checks get taken away so illegal aliens can be taken care of. Do you now think I don't know how much damage illegal aliens cause the hard working American tax payers? That's why when I hire illegal aliens I make sure I squeeze every bit of sweat off of them in order to get at least some of my money back. That's my only form of a tax refund.

 

I don't live in an area such as AZ or So Cal. There are migrant, immigrant farm workers, that travel through this area during harvest seasons. They do the work that we Americans think is beneath us as you described in a previous post. So in reality, Who would do this work if it weren't for the migrants? Your point on that subject is well taken.
I have no dislike for the Mexicans, or any other race of people. But there will be bigotry across all walks of life. I don't understand why people are so judge mental, but I accept the fact, I have no control over it.
But one sure way to stop illegals, is to arrest the people that hire them. If it was in the best interest of our Nation, it would already be so.
Our Government takes no action, because this is what keeps our Country going. US citizens will not do the work...

The people I described above are not the people this thread is about, it is about the drug traffic. There is no way to stop the demand for drugs. So these thugs just keep coming, and keep killing. Is there an answer to that problem.
The Taliban is another subject. In theory they use the money from Opium to finance terrorism world wide. So the very countries that use the drugs, finance the war against them. Where do you find an answer to that problem?

 

I don't think boycotting is silly. What I was refering to was in your "rant" you used the criteria of brown skin/mexican looking. I think boycots can be useful for the right reasons.

I personally don't buy produce from mexcio, I always check the lables. It isn't as clean as US grown b/c their standards are lower. I also won't buy re-man car parts that are built in Mexcio for the same reason.

As for marches they're just a parade with a mean face on it, they really don't accomplish anything IMHO!

Letters-phone calls-Emails-and face to face carry alot more weight, petitions work too. And when the time rolls around VOTE!

I'm 57 years old and have been a carpenter since 1970 and I have seen the trade change for the worse. The illegals aren't just picking our veggies-they are everywhere. I see kids who can't get summer or entry level jobs anymore because they are taken by immigrants (making no judgement here as to the legal status). You live here in SoCal, so tell me the last time you went to a fast food place and didn't think it would be easier to order in spanish.

We are over loaded and the best time to change things would be yesterday- the next best time is today and free for all immigration is not an answer I can live with.

 

$50 a day and a Happy Meal! ha ha

 

$50!!! No way have I ever paid them that much, more like $49.99 sound about right and they never seem to be happy after a long day of hard work, so no happy mean either.

 

Og, I'm finally going to have to say it once more. You may read the Bible, but for what purpose? It seems to always be to prove someone wrong and you are correct. It seems you don't read it to see what can be learned and how it can help YOU, but you read it to find contridictions. Therefore you end up taking verses completly out of context and using them in a manner in which they were never intended. You seem to have no understanding that the Old Testament is not Christianity. Christianity is all about Christ and his teachings and he was not even born until the Old Testament is ended. The Old Testament is the history of God and his dealings with man. To find the teachings of Christ and how Christians are to live, stay in the New Testament, but always keep in mind the context. Who wrote it, why it was written and to whom it was written. Do that with an open mind instead of for the purpose of arguing with some pompus *** out for their own gain, or to sell their own perversion of Christianity and you may be surprised at what you learn.

I'm not going to debate with you, this is all I will say on the subject. I have watched your arguments before and you don't "play" fair. There is no way to discuss Biblical points with someone that does not understand the basic difference in the Old Testament and New Testament or someone that just hops ***** nilly all over the place, looking for a sentence to support or defeat some principle or ideal. Just does not work that way. You seem to be a fun loving, sincere person, but until you get the personalities of man and their perversions(the one's you disagree with) out of the arguement and listen to the scriptures in the way they were intended, you will not ever get it.

 

Well put, Jim.