Where would God stop? Only at the really really bad things? Or are you saying why is there any evil in the world at all? That goes along with another of my post on free will. If God stepped in any and every time we were about to stub our toe we really wouldnt have the choice or ability to do so.


Its not a safehouse, it is a justification on some level and for others it is a means to an end. Bad people will still find other ways.


1st. Yes since I believe God created the universe.
2nd. I don't know that would be up to God.
3rd. How would this impact your life if you knew the answer to this?
4th. I don't consider myself "religious" I have a personal relationship with Christ.
5th. I already mentioned in this thread I don't believe in aliens!

 

OK, so what I'm understanding is that a being must have freewill to be happy? The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God.

If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. How is it possible that a perfect and omnipotent God created beings capable of ruining their own happiness.

Even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.
God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?

 

Who said you have to have free will to be happy? I don't know that you do or dont? And I don't know what it would be like not to have it obviously!

But your statement was about how could perfect create something imperfect. I merely asked the questions if free will was an imperfection or if part of God's perfection limits him on what can be created. I think you missed my point?

 

When you have true Faith, these thing you mentioned, will not even enter your mind.

 

Here is an example of people that may have their hearts in the right place, but do not have the Faith required to be true Christians. Vandalism is not an answer to any problem. It is merely a person lowering themselves to the level of third rate thugs.
But even at that the vandalism may have been performed by the atheist group to generate publicity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2936

 

Ramming anything down someone's throat is not the way to win them over.

 

Someone ought to tell congress and our president that. Health care for all anyone?

Legislated compassion is what I'm getting at. You know, compassion, religion, ect. ect. It is relevant. It is.

 

 

You are right, I was trying to convey what the verse was saying. But I couldn't remember the wording of the verse. The point I was trying to make was that if, people were to understand this one verse themselves, that they could have possibly have a different outlook on Religion. Getting dressed and going to Church every Sunday (and other times in between) does not mean you understand the true meaning of Faith. It's like knowing the rules of a game, but never experience playing it. I'm in no way condemning these people, as I'm sure their intent is pure.

Here is an example: When I got married the first time, shortly after the wedding, a representative of the Church I married at, came to my humble little newlywed house. He came to find out what my 10% pledge to the Church was going to be annually. I trust he had a nice landing, because I shut the door so fast as he was flying out it, that I could only hear the commotion through the door.

Isaiah himself saw this flaw in the Church, but the followers themselves do not even understand this verse. If they did, their teaching and recruiting tactics would change.

 

Actually, my misinterpretation of what you paraphrased is also true.

If I ever get married again (not likely; in addition to other things, I've gotten pretty used to being single and independant), it will most likely be at a Renaissance Festival (yeah, I'm one of those evil Rennies ) and they have other ways to separate me and my money other than tithes.

 

I do tell them, via letters (or emails) and at the polls.

 

OK, Lemme see.............ammmmm.............Ah! I know.......since we don't seem to understand each other through paragraphs or sentences, lets instead dissect my questions word for word.

What does the "Word of God/Holly Scriptures/the Bible mean by saying "Perfect"

Matt. 5:48 - "heavenly Father is perfect"

Deut. 32:4 - "His work is perfect, all His ways are just"

Heb. 7:28 - "a Son, made perfect forever"

Matt. 5:48 - "you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect"

Psalm. 19:7 - "The Law of the Lord is perfect"

Heb. 12:23 - "the spirits of righteous men made perfect"

1 Jn. 4:18 - "perfect love casts out fear..."

Heb. 5:9 - "having been made perfect, He became source of eternal
salvation"

Col. 4:12 - "stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God"

I Cor. 13:10 - "when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away"

Phil. 3:12 - "not that I have already become perfect, but I press on..."

Phil. 3:15 - "let us...as many as are perfect, have this attitude..."

 

Well, I am no biblical scholar. But in most of the verses you listed I would say you could substitute the word Complete. Which God is complete, he needs nothing added and he has no limitations.

 

Well now, let's just start substituting words to make things fit they way you want them to.

I don't really put much stock in any "literal" translation/interpretation unless you are using an old school Hebrew bible. I had a friend in high school who was from Israel and she said that in Hebrew the passages read differently, only slightly, but enough to give a different feel or meaning to the passage. Much like perfect vs. complete, if it says "perfect" you can't just go in and say, "they meant complete". Remember that kid's game, Telephone?

- NCSU

 

Og posed the question to me of what was the definition of "perfect". Saying pefect means perfect is not really a decription so I described (gave it my best definition attempt) as being complete.