If he is anything like I was in school, that Paper was due three days ago.

 

Frank you can take a simple word or two and make it seem like the Devil himself was speaking it.

"hatred for missionaries" where the hell did that come from?

Work on your comprehension,,,,,, please!

 

"As far as the missionaries 'saving' the lost souls of the world, they are doing it to increase the numbers of the church and gain new recruits, you & I both know this is just an opportunistic way to sign new people up."

A completely false statement like that is rooted in hatred. Missionaries are not in the business of "just signing new people up." If they were after money, they surely wouldn't be on missions to countries where the majority of people are literally dirt poor. Now Joel Osteen is another story.

 

I posted my own opinion. Much is in my own words, but I cited some famous quotes to help back me up. These quotes I chose weren't simply copy and paste, much was pulled from the book right in front of me. I use intelligent arguements, hoping for an intelligent rebuttal. Instead I get some Kanuck whining about how I copy and paste. I remember a few years back, similar thread, where you guys bashed me because I never posted any links or copy and pasted any quotes. I used my own words, and those were not good enough for most. Now when I use far more sophisticated logic, and combat your myth with reason, you cry foul simply because you cannot argue with my points. You either lack the knowledge of your own religion to offer anything worthwhile to the thread, or you simply have realized the utter stupidity of embracing a book showing NEITHER unity of style nor internal consistency, and offering absolutely no evidence. In fact, you accept and believe even with the multitudes of evidence proving The Book wrong, and showing many mistakes, made by the MEN who wrote it.

You want to tolerate other religions, I am sure. But the very tenets of YOUR faith tell you otherwise. You must kill infidels. You must destroy entire towns who harbor the infidel, or worse, a Jew* ! (*according to the Bible, not me). Even your Savior Jesus told you to cast the unbelievers out. You must accept the fact, that unless they prescribe to your specific faith, they cannot be saved in the afterlife. Therefore, they are heretics. So, for a man of faith to preach tolerance... its about as backwards as one can get. You either believe and accept, or don't and question. The book clearly states you cannot have it both ways. Make up your mind.

If you are for tolerance, please explain why there has always been war on any border the Islam nation shares with any other religious state. Please explain why they have such a desire for martyrdom. You think its only a few "extremists" right ? Explain why entire nations celebrated in JOY at the news of 9/11. Parents and family of the 19 hijackers still receive gifts to this day for their "great deeds against the infidels". How can we tolerate these people, who wish for us to die ? We represent babylon, everything evil in their mind. Since we are not in "The House of Islam" we are then in the "House of War" and must be fought against. Any muslim who fights against us will see great rewards in the afterlife, according to their belief. So, how on earth do we get along with these people ?

Think about if the tides were turned. Imagine, if you will, Iraq invading the U.S. Do you think Hussein would have tried as hard to keep civilian casualties down ? Do you think he would give our leader the proper trial ? Do you think we would be afforded any of the small dignities we offered the Iraqis ? During the Iran-Iraq war, they used children in the clearing of minefields. This was based on their faith, thinking that the child doing this would secure his place in heaven next to Allah, and pave the path for the family to follow. Do you think our government would urge us to do the same ? Would we ? What about suicide bombers ? Would this be something you could see our government asking us to do ?? Honestly ? Would the Muslim invaders shed a tear when they shoot up a car full of Americans at a road side checkpoint ? Or would they celebrate the death of more heretics, since they are performing the duty of the Prophet and sending non-believers to face their true punishment ? We all know what is true here.

It should be of particular concern to us that the beliefs of Muslims pose a special problem for nuclear deterrence. There is little possibility of our having a cold war with an Islamist regime armed with long-range nuclear weapons. A cold war requires that the parties be MUTUALLY deterred by the threat of death. Notions of martyrdom and jihad run roughshod over the logic that allowed the United States and the Soviet Union to pass half a century perched, more or less stably, on the brink of Armageddon. What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry ?

This is insane of course. I am describing a scenario in which much of the worlds population could be wiped out on account of religious ideas that belong on the same shelf with Batman, the philosopher's stone, and unicorns. That it would be a horrible absurdity for so many of us to die for the sake of myth does not mean that is cannot or will not happen.


Think about it....

( and if you need things double spaced, smaller words, or shorter reading, you really have no business trying to participate in a mature debate, or surfing only for that matter, and should stick to kiddie cartoons and other "simple" things. If it makes it easier, you can quote this, then address each paragraph one by one. Or just stop. Being a man of faith; means reason, logic and thinking are not your strong suit. )

 

Really unsure what this has to do with my statement. Did you read a single word I posted, or do you simply quote and add random quotes ? Your contributions to this thread are endless....

If you understand Mr. Jefferson, you would understand he even wrote his own Bible !! Shocking right ? He thought the teachings of Jesus Christ was a great moral structure to raise kids on. When he wrote his own version of the bible, he left out any of the hard to believe MYTHS. Things like Jesus' resurection, virgin birth, Jona in the whale, and crap like that. This is what he is reffering to. In that quote, he is acually denouncing church, saying that he doesn't follow church's teaching, but rather the teachings of Jesus, as he saw them. He tried to apply reason and logic to a religion. Needless to say, it wasn't widely accepted.

He is a very interesting character. You showing your lack of understanding of this great man, I suggest you study up on him. Really, truly is fascinating man. You can see his struggle with religion.

They claim to KNOW what happens when you die. They lie. They spread myth and false hope. Spreading religion is the same as spreading disease, and I think no higher of the missionaries, then I do of the flea ridden rats who spread the plague. Both cause untold death, the missionaries have the plague beat tenfold. Its easier to avoid the rat, because he does not hide who he is.

 

Wow. Your entire post is laced with half-truths and pride.

First off, to assume that people of faith do not possess reason and logic is a mistake. To you, ostensibly, that is the case. No one on earth can tell me precisely how the elements that are currently on this earth got here. There are theories, yes, but they are theories.

"You must destroy entire towns who harbor the infidel, or worse, a Jew* ! (*according to the Bible, not me). Even your Savior Jesus told you to cast the unbelievers out. You must accept the fact, that unless they prescribe to your specific faith, they cannot be saved in the afterlife. Therefore, they are heretics."

A heretic is someone within a belief that disavows doctrine. You twist the words of Christ in your post. Jesus said to witness to unbelievers, and if they still choose not to believe to go in peace from them. To say that they are to be "cast out" is false.

"This is insane of course. I am describing a scenario in which much of the worlds population could be wiped out on account of religious ideas that belong on the same shelf with Batman, the philosopher's stone, and unicorns."

A unicorn in the OT of the Bible is a one-horned animal, such as a rhino. It was not referring to a unicorn as in a mythical animal with the body and head of a horse.

As humans with logic and free will, we can believe what we choose without any adverse affects in this life. There will be justice rendered one day on earth. One has to consider why humans are far and above other living beings in power, knowledge, and creativity. To believe in unproven theories is also a religion.

 

I don't hate the missionaries Frank (I don't hate anyone), they are brainwashed so its not like they know better.
I also believe that they think what they are doing is right, and in a small way what they do is good, but it would be much more noble if it didn't come with a hidden cost. (the free high pressure bible study class)

You see, the missionaries are trying to save everyone because this is what they''ve been taught, and believe it is the correct thing to do.

Christian's have a great deal of respect for the people who helped make them a Christian (most times it's parents or close family)

Here's a little truth Frank, it's not pretty but I'm gonna tell you anyway:

Christians do not have faith in "God" so much as they have greater faith in the people who told them which god to worship, and ultimately SUPREME faith in thier ability to choose the correct god; and to correctly interpret that god. Christians, in reality, worship nobody but themselves.

This is why so many of you come across as so arrogant and smug when talking to non-believers. Not all of you mind you, there's regular guys out there like Tumba and some others who quietly do their thing and go about their day, but I suppose from your POV, if they arn't on the constant high pressure sales trip, that probably doesn't make them a true Christian like yourself?

No Frank I don't hate you or Christians, I can't be clear enough of that, but I'll let you guys have the monopoly on the hate emotion, life's too short.

 

The hate emotion? I can assure you I have no hatred for anyone either.

You state the missionaries are doing what they are taught. They are doing what they are by being convicted by the Holy Ghost. They are not "taught" anything without the heart desire from the Holy Ghost.

Your posts postulate that they are robots. Are there Christians that sometimes come across as smug? Yes. Are there Muslims that sometimes come across as smug? Yes. Are there agnostics that sometimes come across as smug? Yes.

And I'll be honest with you Habibi, you may not care, but it offends me that you state Christians have a monopoly on hate. That is totally false. If I hated you or anyone else, I wouldn't waste my time replying here.

 

I don't mean to say I am close minded.. not religious so nothing here bothers me... just the fact that I keep getting updates and some of the posts appear to be garbage (not yours... certain ones I think you know) and it is repetitive

 

אני חושב תפילת השלווה מתאים האשכולות כמו זאת היטב.
אומץ לא יכול לשנות מה הוא כאן. אז המפלט האחרון הוא "את החוכמה לדעת את ההבדל." את השלווה תמיד תהיה איתי.

 

You sir, are the only one offering lies. I offer doubt. Doubt is humble and that is what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting [stuff] dead wrong.

You accept things like the world being 6k years old. This is not based in reason or logic, but rather faith. I need evidence to believe anything, where in your case, faith itself is evidence enough.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. ... If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."-John 15:4-6

They wither ? Cast into the fire ? Burn ? Jesus is very clearly telling you to kill the unbelievers.

Isn't it sad that an infidel knows more about your own Book then you do ? You should be ashamed of yourself. How do you call yourself christian ?

"Your reading comphension is that of a 5 year old. I was comparing the "myth" of the bible to the myth of "Batman, the philosopher's stone, or a unicorn". All are equally fake, all based in the same realm of reality, or lack of it.

Your first statement shows an unmeasureable amount of pure ignorance. We cannot be hurt by our beliefs in this life ? I want you to call all the family members who lost loved one in 9/11 and let them know this "truth". Tell them they cannot be hurt by the beliefs of those 19 hijackers. Tell the BILLIONS of people killed "in the name of (insert your god here)". Spanish inquistition, Holocaust, the crusades, do I need to continue ? Every major atrocitity that has happened on earth, has happened due to someone's belief. Beliefs are levers, when pulled they form actions. These actions can be GREAT, such as the hundreds of Christians who helped save Jews during the Holocaust. But these actions can also be things you can't imagine. These beliefs can lead men to do unspeakable acts to other men.


To think you are "far above other living things" is arrogant. We simply do not have a full understanding of the things around us to make this statement. We are different, yes. Maybe you can say more "modern" by our standards. But superior ? This thinking is what leads to such atrocities as mentioned above. If you are superior to a dog, why not a Muslim ? What if you BELIEVE these people are less then people ? They don't accept your God, therefore they are less. Do you see war in the wild ? Genocide ? torture ? We have advanced bodily arm to such a degree that it is unthinkable, and most can't imagine. So, are we superior ? Or are they ? How is it that you measure this ? Just be humble, we need more of it.

I do not believe in unproven theories. Again I offer doubt. Doubt is humble and that is what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting [stuff] dead wrong. I can accept some ideas, such as gravity, based on what we know today. However, this does not mean I will not accept other theories. Religion on the other hand, is based on the principle that others are wrong, and you must NOT accept them. Anyone who tells you anything other then what you believe, is an unbeliever, and therefore cannot be talked to or reasoned with. In fact, most religions tell you to kill this unbeliever, simply because he does not subscribe to the same fairytale you do.

 

I'm through Frank, you don't read, comprehend, and try to see the other person's point of view. Totally pointless to try to focus your attentions. You bend other people's words into what you want to see/read, not what they actually typed.

For instance, Habibi didn't offend you with the monopoly on hate comment. You offended yourself by claiming Habibi said Christians had a monopoly on hate. READ it again, that's not what he said!!!!!!!

Now, let me end my statement with a good ole' Christian smilie: :santa:

 

Of course I care.

Here's the thing Frank,
I was watching a special 2 hour episode on BAC's on television.
The reporter was in somm southern city (well to-do, all white upper class neighborhood)
So the reporter is in this families swanky house, the entire family is good looking, kids are cute as a button, and they are standing in the kitchen which probgably costs more than my entire house, but that's not the point, I just want you to have a feel for the setting..

So the reporter asks the kids 2 girls, 5 & 7)
What happens when you die? The girls answer "You go to hell and you stay there for all eternity"
Reporter asks the mother if the family taught their girls that to which she answers:
"Of course, we want to instill our Christian values, and we tell our girls what happens if you don't believe"
"You go to hell when you die, and you stay there in Satan's hellfire for all eternity, but not us, we will be in Heaven, and I can't wait for the day of reckoning to get here, I wish it would come tomorrow so I can see all the people who don't believe burn in hell".

I honestly thought this chick was going to have an orgazm the way she spoke of watching 'non-believers' roasting in Hell, while her and her rich family sunbathed in Heaven for all eternity.

Yeah, there's no hate there eh?
Cmon man, that is hate right there and that says a lot about how Christians believe themselves to be so highly entitled, it's like they think they know the Cadbury secret.

If that's not hate than you and I have two very definitions of the word.

Just so you know, this documentary thingy, they interviewed about 8 familes from down south somewhere and they all believed and said the same things, they were relishing the thought of being able to say "I told ya so, you had your chance, but you didn't listen, oh well, shrug'"

 

Those are not the words of a true Christian

 

Agreed. That attitude goes completey against everything Christ stood for and what he taught. If they don't figure it out, they will end up in that place as well.

It is extremely painfull to watch some of you quote scripture so literally and take it completely out of context. Most of you have no business trying to use scripture to prove anything, one way are another. All you do is show your ignorance and complete lack of understanding of what is being taught.