I grew up in a church that believed their way was the only way. Can you tell?
In my opinion there will be Baptists, Jews, Catholics, etc. in heaven. If I end up in hell I will have friends there too. I have not gone to church for many years and don't miss the back stabbing Holyer than thou attitudes of some. Hypocrits. Yes, I have just judged.

 

Yes, I have just judged.

 

You know what's kinda funny? For me it was the opposite. My memories and experiences in church were for the most part very good ones. Of course, being the ministers son might have had something to do with that, I really don't know. It was the way religion was handled outside of the church that turned me off. If religion could stay within the walls of the church and it's followers homes, I'd have no issues with it at all. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be possible.

 

No different than your faith in mans science. The fact of God's word is in the Bible. If you choose to say so, then say we are stating the case from the word of the Bible. Since you obviously don't believe in the Bible. By your logic, then scientific belief and facts do not go together. Sure we have a pretty good handle on science.. on some things. Most certainly not on "evolution" or the begining of time, or begining of matter. The list can go on nearly forever. So our faiths are just aimed at different things. Yours towards man, ours towards God.

 

I don't believe Jesus as a man had the choice. I believe in the trinity. Jesus IS God. I don't believe God is tempted. His creation has choice.

 

But who was it that was handling "religion" ouside of chruch? It was man. Not God. man fails at every thing he tries at some time.

 

That makes sense now, but...and you just know there's a "BUT" coming...

K, fair enough, God gave up control over his son, and quite possibly, Jesus might've made the wrong choice, and God would lose him, but here's the thing,

Let's say that happened, Jesus decided to be the "bad son" of God, he started going to the titty bar, running with the wrong crowd, heck, he even got "SATAN" tattooed on his *** cheeks.

Where is the loss?

This isn't exactly like a married couple who lost a child at childbirth.
The tragedy is not nearly the same.

And besides, every single one of us are supposedly "Children of God right?
If Jesus didn't do the right thing, God could've just kept doing it until it went his way. To me, I just don't see the sacrifice the way a believer sees it.

I do respect people's decision to believe what they want, and even my arch enemy Stealth, who confuses facts with Faith, I even respect his choice to believe in the old 'stories that were handed down to him by his role models.

Because I think a lot of this stuff is sentimental, you believe what your daddy believed, and what his daddy believed, it's actually kind of sweet in a certain kind of light.

A lot of these stories from the Bible don't follow a logical path for me, and as much as I hate to say it, I do try to follow logic as much as I can.

I'm not saying God doesnt exist, because who the heck knows for sure?
(no shines, you dont know either)

Believers use the word "FAITH", where I would use the word HOPE.

I hope a God exists, and if he does, I hope he's a benevolent God, and not some tyrant who thrives on peoples heartache and misery, and I HOPE if there is something after our phyical death, I hope it's the 40 virgins like the Muslims say it is. "Boom Chicka wow wow"

Peace

 

Chris, there is a huge difference between faith in religion and science. Science is based on observable and undeniable fact. Faith is based on beliefs. Science has more than a good handle on evolution. Let me try and explain something that many people don't understand.

The terms "theory" and "fact" have very precise and rigid definitions in science. That is why scientists tend not to talk about Fact of Evolution, but instead of Theory of Evolution. The common non-technical understanding of the word "theory" misleads people to think that there is something unproven about it. The way you (and everyone outside of the scientific community) define the word 'theory' is the same way scientists define the word 'hypothesis'. In science, a theory is more than a fact, it is model made from observing multiple facts that support the theory.

As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts).

A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, the Grand Canyon cuts through layers of different kinds of rock, such as the Coconino sandstone, Hermit shale, and Redwall limestone. These rock layers often contain fossils that are found only in certain layers. Those are the facts. It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

There are millions of technical papers in biology, tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of technical books in biology - every one of them contributes to understanding of evolution, and not a single one of them makes any sense except in the context of evolution. NOTHING in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.

Theory of Evolution of all Life on Earth from a Single Common Ancestor (as opposed to being designed) is stronger than Theory that Earth is Round (as opposed to flat), or Theory of Heliocentrism that posits that Earth revolves around the Sun (and not vice versa), or Theory that Sun is not the Center of the Universe.

The Theory of Evolution is the most factually based theory in science. That doesn't mean you have to believe it. You don't have to believe the Earth is round, either. But you should be aware that science has gone to great lengths to prove these things true.

 

This thread has been very helpful and intriguing especially because it deals with many questions we ask in my philosophy of religion class. I consider myself a Christian, but I am also a sinner as we all are. I am not trying to place myself on one side or another but merely noting some problems some people may come across while referring to scripture for different situations.

I have seen several Scripture verses in this thread and the majority of them seem to come from the "New Living Version" or the "New International Version" (NIV) translations of the Bible. The truth is the New Living is one of the worst translations of the Bible on the face of the earth. In fact it really isn't a translation. It is merely a paraphrase of the Living Bible which was created by Ken Taylor who was NOT proficient by any means, in Greek, Hebrew, or Arabic. THe NIV was created by a group of Evangelical Christians who, as much as they would say translated it accurately, misconstrued some ideas to their own personal views. (Examples available if wanted).

Personally I have nothing against either of these books and use the NIV in my own readings. However if you want to go about scholarly quotes, I would highly recommend the New Revised Standard Version or the New American Standard Version, or even the Catholic translation of the Bible. The first two were translated from a board of scholars fluent and expert in the Greek and Arabic languages with even a few devout atheists on the board who purely wished to provide the most literal translation in to English. (again, proof available if unbelievers are out there )

OK so **here is my question, if you want to skip on all the discussion above**

There has been many debate over the years and especially within my own class, but what religion did Jesus practice when he was here? Do not just say he was a Jew because thats too easy. prove it. Many have thought he was of the Essene sect of Jews but this was highly unlikely. PLEASE HELP!!

 

Welcome to the discussion
Interesting logical ideas you expressed in your post. I hope you don't mind me modifying some of the sentences to save space.

As far as Hell goes sometimes I wonder if hell is the present and depending on how you live your life there is reward and punishment. For most there are consequences for choices. Some are here to teach (good and bad) some are here to choose to learn or not and some are examples to aid in making choices good and bad. One day we will all find out or not.
Sometimes it makes me wonder when I hear people giving directions to a place they have never been....don't know anyone else that has ever been there themselves....but they know where it is and how to get there?

Personally I think that works are equally important to salvation as confessing.
I often see much confession and no works and the scripture says "faith with no works is dead". Today there are many kill em all or not my problem believers in Christ that know they are saved because they confessed.

Jesus seemed to be a socialist and a liberal but some of the most religious talking, no compromise people I have ever met in recent times were proud staunch conservatives.
Contradiction yes.

Thanks for being honest. It's a very hard read to follow....im a very good reader when I put my mind to it and I still get confused.

Some people used to get pissed at my questions and eventually tell me I wasn't supposed to understand because my mind is too limited. Stop asking questions and accept what is written and taught....or risk going to hell for trying to understand what I was incapable of grasping.

It could be assumed and logically concluded but there are many references to a biological connection to David also. The problem I have is that if you read word for word literally it is not clear.
Many purist say you must take every word as it is written.

So are you saying the 3 are one?

If you believe man fails at everything why do you assume the Bible has no mistakes, revisions or omissions that may have changed over thousands of years?....when man cant keep a story straight for 50 years? ...or even 50 days sometimes....

 

This is a passage I have been looking for, { I've been looking in the wrong book}
To me this is the end result of what is to come when people quit deciding who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell.

 

The theory of evolution is total bunk. There has been not one bit of evidence that any living being changed from one thing into another. There is plenty of evidence of adaptation. Adaptation is different than changing from a monkey to a man. It is things on a being that help for example to adapt to a climate.
But the best obvious example is dogs. There are dogs of all shapes and sizes. All with different colorsm markings, ears, noses. They all are different. but they are still dogs. People bring up the similarities of DNA between man and ape.. and in fact the DNA isn't all that different between all living things. This to me points that God created everything. Just like a Porsche and a VW are pretty similar.. they had the same designer. If our DNA was very different, what would we eat? We wouldn't be compatible with other living things and would be difficult to digest and get nourishment. Now you science types will say that PROVES evolution. We evolved to be able to eat things and all is similar because we came from the same primordial soup. Here is a quote from The Answers Book:


"What of the 97% similarity claimed between humans and chimps? The figures quoted do not mean quite what is claimed in the popular publications (and even some science journals). DNA contains its information in the sequence of four chemical compounds known as nucleotides, abbreviated C,G,A,T. Complex translation machinery in the cell "reads" a series of three-letter "words" of these chemical "letters"and translates these into the sequences of the 20 different amino acids in the proteins (a typical protein has hundreds of amino acids). The human DNA has over 3 billion nucleotides. Neither the human nor the chimp DNA has been anywhere near fully sequenced to allow a proper comparison. It may be a while before such a comparison can be made because it may be 2005 before we have the full sequence of human DNA, and chimp DNA sequencing has a much lower priority.
Where then did the "97% similarity" come from? It was inferred from a fairly crude technique called DNA hybridization,where Small parts of human DNA are split into single strands and allowed to re-form double strands (duplex) with chimp DNA. However, there are various reasons why DNA does or does not hybridize, only one of which is degree of similarity. Consequently, those working in the field of molecular homology do not use this somewhat arbitrary figure; other figures derived from the shape of the "melting curve" are used instead. Why has the 97% figure been popularized then? Perhaps it served the purpose of indoctrinating the scientifically illiterate with evolution- like the imaginative "ape-man" reconstructions in many museums."

And that brings another fact. With all the fossil records we have, why is there even such thing as a "missing link"? evolution is a far thing from a slam dunk.

 

Yes, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The trinity. They are one.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kins of gifts, but the same spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

Hebrews 1:1-3 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

The Hebrews quote also points out that after Jesus came, there where no prophets speaking God's word. Thus showing the Mormons are not correct.


I know the Bible has no mistakes, despite man writing it because it was God inspired.


2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


as far as Bible accuracy over the years, The dead sea scrolls when found, where compared to the current Bible. The accuracy was 100%

 

I find it hard to believe a book called the "Answers Book" as a credible source when the questions it answers are as such:

Seems like it's a book by Creationists for Creationists

 

That is all fine and accurate. Especially when you read the whole chapter to get the perspective and whole meaning. People who you say are deciding who goes to Heaven and hell are repeating what is written in the Bible. So aren't deciding.