Have you ever met a slave? Have you ever met a slave owner? Me either. Until you learn to move beyond the past you will never find equality because you feel like you are entitled to something because your ancestors suffered.

Were your ancestors even slaves? I can tell you my white ancestors weren't slave owners, most were Germans who came here in the late 1800s. Maybe I should hire a Jewish person to make up for that. The other side of my family are Irish, another group who was taken advantage of when they immigrated here. Maybe I should get some special treatment because my great grandfather may have been mistreated.

Like I said, if you feel like you got the short end of the stick because your ancestors where brought here against their will 150+ years ago, I'll buy you a ticket back to Africa.

- NCSU

 

So, people are ok with passivity as long as there is prosperity? Isn't our prosperity part of the reason the terrorists hit us?

The economy was stable untill the Dot.com bubble burst.

Employment was plentiful. I think it was around 5% unemployment?

No wars. Just troops in Bosnia. We don't talk about that though.

A few terrorist attacks, which weren't considered a problem. The terrorists got that message loud and clear.

The good 'ol days when we learned that oral sex isn't actually sex. Now thirteen year old girls think it's ok to give the boys BJs in the middle school bathroom. That Bill Clinton. He's the man.

There are a lot of things to be pissed about now. Like the hypocrisy.

Some people are hurting because they weren't on firm footing to begin with. Some people are hurting because they were high on the hog fo so long that when they fell off they didn't think they could get back up there. There are a few of us who have worked at becoming resiliant, so that we can wether this ever changing society we are participating in.

 

Its too damn early to think right now. But I wanted to say hello to you guys.

 

Hey Big

- NCSU

 

Wanted to do the same as big, I think your doing a great job of verbalizing the thoughts most of us have NCSU.

 

I meet a man for the first time, he is just a man, regardless of color or country of origin. Obviously, I make some assumptions about him based on his demearnor, appearance, and how he conducts himself. Those assumptions are modified as I learn more about him and as he reveals himself. Once he starts down a path of "I want something for nothing", or "I desrve this because...", or I sense he is less than honest, or any other negative, then I adjust my respect, it starts going down. The opposite is true if I sense positive things. This is how it is with any person I meet.

My Dad had to leave home at the age of 13. The family was in the middle of the depression and there was not enough food for all of them on the hard scrabble West Texas farm. He went 300 miles west to work on a ranch for $10 a month, plus room and board. He had a 5th grade education and I was 19 before I realized he was one of the smartest men I have ever known. He owned a successful auto parts business at the time of his death.

My point in this rant is that a man can do what he wants with his life. It takes guts, hard work, and some luck, but he can do it and no one owes him anything, regardless of his family history.

 

Sounds like your father is a great man. Stories like this is what America was built on. You can have only the clothing on your back, but with a good work ethic and a desire to become something you have the oppertunity to succeed.

 

Sure. Prove to me how you know they don’t use professionally registered engineers.
I find it difficult to believe a competitor would divulge this information, or make it publicly known.

No, it won’t. I never said Affirmative Action was the cure. However, I have seen no one come up with a better plan yet. If minorities had assurances that companies would consider them for employment, and choose the best qualified candidate- then yes, AA could go away. But, until that has been demonstrated, then safeguards need to remain in place.

a.) Maybe it was.
b.) Of course he didn’t.
c.) Now look who’s assuming… I don’t have anything against white people. I like white people, some of my best friends are white, I have white family members- and I’m extremely fond of white women. Especially those with big booties. In fact, I almost married a white woman.

a.) The more qualified person did.
b.) And you wouldn’t be? If you were competing for a job, and someone was going around telling people they were more qualified than you, it wouldn’t tick you off?
Yeah, right.
c. It’s OK to think it, but you don’t say it.




a.) I couldn’t agree more. However, I’m saying I don’t believe I would have had the OPPORTUNITY to show what my capabilities are, were it not for programs like EO and AA. As I’ve said thirtyleven times. Those programs get you in the door. You still have to sell yourself at the interview, and you have to perform if you get the job. Don’t think for a nanosecond that being black keeps you employed. It doesn’t.

b.) I’m one of them.

c.) You won’t find an Al Sharpton fan here.

 

It is common practice for many businesses to "hire" and "appoint" a minority or female to be President of a company for the benefit of winning contracts. Sometimes the "President" has no power and is paid a healthy sum to do nothing. Minority owned companies do get preferential treatment for many state and federal jobs; especially jobs that are bid on. Wether some folks will admit it or not it is no secret.

 

Nope. I've never been bitten by a rattlesnake either.

I don't live in the past. But, to ignore it is the first step into the abyss of denial, and ignorance.

I am equal... In fact, I think I'm superior in some ways (academics, for instance).

a.) Yes, they were. My great grandmother was a slave, and my great grandfather was a Native American. However, I've never claimed any of their pain from slavery.

I think we (black people) are better off being in America, than we would be in Africa. Plus, we have air conditioning here. That's got to count for something.

b.) OK. Your point? Let's try to stay on subject here.

c.) Historically, you have gotten special treatment (compared to minorities). What more do you want?

I have a pretty good grip on the stick bro. I'm firmly planted in the 25% tax bracket. No short end here. I want to make sure I havethe opportunity to ensure it stays that way, and that I'm not systematically excluded from competition or consideration due to my skin color. Call it a lack of trust...

If I wanted to go to Africa (typical rebuttal), I could fly myself there. First class. Thanks for the offer though.

 

Yes, I know. My friend's father has similar stories about how the folks he competes with in Shreveport, LA, who are white, have also gotten the "preferred" treatment, by making their wives the "President". White women are part of the "protected class" and "minorities" too. So, because she "owns" the company, she gets the contract, and they still get the money.

It's a win-win situation. The only downside is on paper, not in reality...

 

I know because we've used the company that got the job (for the Maryland Port Authority in case you're wondering) as subconsultants in the past (because they're minority owned we could use them for inspections while our company does the engineering work). They have ZERO engineers on staff, much less Professionally Licensed Engineers. A Professional Engineer holds a license much like a doctor holds a license to practice. Just because you went to Med School doesn't mean you can treat patients, same thing for a PE. Just because you hold a degree in engineering doesn't mean you can sign off on plans, etc.


I didn't assume anything. You said it right here...
That's your assumption.

Aren't those the lines a bigot uses? "I don't hate black people, some of my best friends are black." ect ect. I remember when that didn't fly with the black community at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought AA required that a certain % of your hires must be minorities, not that you just had to interview minorities. I'll admit, I'm not as knowledgeable as you are on this subject.

- NCSU

 

Funny that you mention Shreveport because that is exactly the place I was talking about. The Shreveport Fire Dept got sued a few years back by a bunch of white Fire Academy students who did not get on the Fire Department even though they had higher test scores and PT scores than the African American students who were hired. If you were black you automatically got X number points added to your final score for your skin color. The guys won their lawsuit, won 4 years back pay, and were instated on the Fire Department.

This is reverse discrimination; it happens all the time in many arenas. Colleges have done it with admissions and scholarships for years. Hopefully we don't go from discrimination from one side straight to discrimination to the other. Seems being the "best man for the job" may not really mean anything.

 

Superior to who?

My point is your ancestors weren't they only ones to get screwed when the came over here. The difference is, you don't hear anyone else bitching about it.

I never got $*&% asshat. My grandparents were dirt poor and busted their asses so their kids could have a better life. My grandfather was a factory worker for 40 years, my mother had to go to work at the corner store when she was 12 to help bring in money for the family. Before that my family wasn't even here, so "historically" we didn't get any advantages either. Don't give me this "White's have it easy" BS.


Who don't you trust? The white man in general? Isn't that being racist? What more do you want, more special treatment? Maybe black people shouldn't have to pay taxes, would that make you trust the white man more?

I've always believed that people who have trust issues usually have some serious issues of their own.

- NCSU

 

Well, I'll give you points on that one. Everything as a loophole- but, that's business today. A lot of company's sell "networks" to other customers, then go to telephone companies to design and manage the network they sold, but have no idea how to design, engineer, provision, or manage. We're in an era of finding others to do business on your behalf, while charging end customers a premium, and still turn a profit.

Just curious- why would a reputable company subcontract any portion of their work out to a company believed to be sub-standard to your own capabilities? Perhaps they are a capable company. Otherwise, you guys wouldn't use them, would you?

Yeah, you did. Your sarcasm detector must not have been functioning, so you answered a sacrastic reply (of mine) as if it were a meaningful/arguable statement. Then ended upassuming I assumed something, when that was not the case, thereby making in an inaccurate assumption.

No, it's a bigoted statement when a bigot says it.

Example: If I were to make a statement like that, when in reality I didn't have any white friends or family members. Then that would be a bigoted statement. But, because I do, and I do- it's not bigoted, it's accurate.

Let's not twist words to conjure up unfounded accusations, Counselor...

AA, while detailed and multifaceted, is generally a means to ensure employers take affirmative action (consideration of) minority applicants, with regard to their hiring practices. A lot of people think this means quotas, but the only aspect of business in which companies are scrutinized by the percentage of minorities they have on staff, are companies of a certain size, and companies who work for- or have direct dealings (contracts) with the US government.

Private companies are not scrutinized in this way. But, they are not "forced" to hire minorities. They just risk losing business from the US government if they have a less than ethnically and sexually diverse workforce.

There are no quotas in private business, and AA rules don't apply in small companies. However, all employees, regardless of the size of the company, are still protected by Equal rights, and basic Human Resource expectations- even if the company doesn't have an HR department an employee can still sue an employer for failing to protect him or her for harrassment, discrimination, and failure to provide a reasonably safe work environment.

For the vast majority, AA represents a proverbial foot in the door, a chance to be considered, nothing more.

Diversity in the workforce has been preached a lot in the last twenty years. One day we may not need programs like AA.

One day...