Well, a quick Google search, certianly not an extensive search, and I see that Clinton and Obama signed on as co-sponsers of the bill. McCain opposes the bill. The president says he'll veto the bill.

The GI bill was started in 1944, after WWII. McCain doesn't oppose the GI bill, just the "new" version. The "new" version is part of an Iraq war funding bill that also contains billions in new domestic spending. The wording in the GI bill may deture people from joining the military, instead going straight to college, at a time when the military is stretched thin.

We need to support our military men and women. Just not blindly.

 

My last post in this thread was FIXING Raoul's assertions... I knew there was PORK... and did not have to look. The Lib's have a way of getting you to look at one hand, so ya don't see what the others doing.

 

No we don't change when we are behind closed doors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_Park-Windsor_Hills

 

Good one, Drew! - Og

 

Guys, please. Expand yourselves past the sound byte talking points.
Shine, Bush/McCain have stated plainly they specifically oppose the GI bill portion of the supplemental. Don't muddy the water with mad cow desease research.

First, the GI Bill appropiation has been filed under 'domestic spending'.
I take issue with this, it is a cost of war.
How can Bush be so lavish with the sacrifice of our military and then stingy with regard to benefits?

wit, you don't understand the GI bill.
You get nothing up front. You serve your country in time of war and then get a leg up in bettering yourself in society. I went to college under the old GI bill and nobody ever shot at me. The current GI Bill is a joke. Just bad enough to keep many from making the leap.

The Bush/McCain argument is that if the new GI bill is approved, "too many solidiers will get out of service and persue college..." WTF?

I know that more will get out to try and better their lot.
I also know that they will be replaced by new recruits looking to do the same.

Tell me,
what has happened to that 'teach a man to fish' philosophy that is thrown around here so often?

 

Not only is it a joke now, it was a joke twenty years ago when I came in, back when the max payout was $25,000 for college. What they didn't tell us and certainly did not make it clear, was that $25,000 was a combination of the GI Bill and the Army College Fund. Not many 18 year olds know enough to ask the probing questions, especially when it seems like it's a given.

The way it was worded back in 1987 was that if you came in for 2 years, you got $18,000, 3 years, 22,500, and for a 4-year enlistment, the payout was $25,000. So, I enlisted for four.

So, October 1991, the Army opened the door, and let anyone out of the Army who wanted to get out. It didn't matter if you had reenlisted the day before, you coudl pick youe ETS date.

Well, I had an older friend who was getting out, and he was tellign me he was goign to college- and that the GI Bill was gonna pay him $1,400/month to go to school. That would be a 40% payraise for me (at the time), and I get a degree enroute? Where do I sign?

So, I went to check my benefits package to be sure before I turned in my ETS packet, and that's when I found out I only had the GI Bill, no Army college fund. And, even though I'd given them 4 years of my life, and had signed up for another three, I'd been screwed at teh MEPS station 4 years earlier. I only had $14,000, and diviging that by 36 payments, only came to $388.00 /month. About 1/2 of what I was making. So, with a new car and insurance to pay for, I decided to stay in, and I did 6 more years before trading in my boots and BDU's for a suit and tie.

So, many of us joined under false notions. (It's not like they had you a copy of your "contract" for you to read, or anything, not at teh Shreveport MEPS, anyway.)

But, think about it. A career soldier, like me- if I'd done another 10, I'd have gotten out last year- retired at 20 years, and age 38, with a full $14,000 to go to college.

What accredited college/university can you go to, and get a 4-year degree for $14,000.00? None.

But, that's the difference in the GI Bill today, and what it was in WWII. After WWII, the intent was to allow soldiers to retrain for a career for the rest of their lives, and the GI Bill payout was enough for a GI to go to almost any university in the USA, and have their tuition covered, to include Ivy league schools.

Today, that little $50,000 (That I'll bet has the same, or a similar GI Bill/ACF funding attached to it) will only pay for maybe two - three years at a major university. And, some schools (Duke, Harvard, Tulane, Standofrd, UT-Austin, etc. A little over a year).

That's where the real joke is.

As fo rMcCain, yeah- they talked about his statement on Military.com. Clearly, the focus is not on the GI's future, but on milking as much as they can from them right now, then discarding them- the only real benefit being, to a soldier that doesn't retire, is 100% financing on a new house through a VA loan (with approved credit, and a 2% funding fee). That's it.

 

The original GI Bill of 1944 was simple and straightforward.
It is easy to see that current GI Bill instituted back in '85 was written by lawyers.
An 18 year old raising his Right hand never stood a chance.

The proposed legislation will fix that 'Wrong'.

Bush is impotent on this one, it has support to override his veto.
McCain has hitched his wagon to a loser on this issue.
My junior senator from VA owns this baby.

 

NC State was ranked 30th among the nation's top engineering programs, 5th among the nation's 28 colleges of veterinary medicine, 59th among the nation's top MBA programs (U.S. News & World Report, 2008), 5th among public American research universities without medical schools (The Center, 2006).... Sure it's not Ivy League, but it's nothing to sneeze at. I was there for 6½ years and $50,000 is more than enough to cover tuition, books, room & board.

I don't think anyone should have schools like Duke, Harvard, Tulane, Standford, UT-Austin, etc, paid for by the Government. There are plenty of other excellent schools that don't cost an arm and a leg. For that matter, I feel that any money from a government program should only be valid at public universities.

Besides, if you really want to go to college, joining the military shouldn't be the way to get funding. The fact that you get any money to go to college after serving should be seen as an added benefit, you shouldn't expect to be entitled to a free ride. After all, there are plenty of people who've made careers, and good ones at that, out of their service.

- NCSU

 

When my brother enlisted he had a friend who just got back from Iraq. He explained to my brother that the military will lie and lie, say whatever it takes to get you to sign. Sure enough my brother started asking questions and quickly found alot of the money they promise you will never see. He wasnt in it so much for the money, he just honestly wanted to serve. Signed up anyways and has moved up over the past 2 years to the point where he is making somewhat decent money. Its just sad how the military lies to these kids right out of H.S.

 

More omissions than lies in my experience.

 

turtle, all I know about you is that you're 32 and military.
I guess you're on your second hitch.
Would a new GI bill cause you to change course?

 

I had a great recruiter when I went in in '86. He explained the Army College Fund perfectly. Even though at the time I had no intention of going to school it seemed a worthwhile investment "just in case".

It definitely paid off.

Todays ACF is pretty capable of paying for a 4 year degree at most state colleges.

 

I'm sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. Fighting in Iraq for 3 terms is pretty damn far from a "Free Ride", and has definitely earned you a College Degree IMO(if you're willing to work for it)..

Often times Duty is the only choice a person has to actually WORK and EARN money for a degree. Of course corporate America would rather you finance it through a Bank so they can make more money off of ya...

 

No apologies needed, you're entitled to your opinions. Remember, nobody was forced to sign up for the military and not every servicemen has been stationed in Iraq for the past several years either.

If you don't pay for college out of your own pocket, I consider that a "Free Ride", be it an academic or athletic scholarship, parents money, whatever.

College is a privilege, not a right.

How do you figure signing up is the only choice someone has to earn money? Maybe if they're too incompetent to get a job, but then they aren't going to do all that well in the military either. For that matter, they won't be able to make it through college anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

There are lots of people who bust their *** working to pay for school. I worked most of the time I was in college. Yeah, I took out some student loans too, but that was my choice, and since I got a good degree and a good job I can pay them off. I don't see that as corporate America trying to screw me. Besides, at 2.75% they won't be making that much off me.

There are scholarships, grants, work studies, financial aid, etc, so I don't buy this idea of people signing up for service as the only way to get money for college. If anything, it probably seems like an easy way for an 18 year old to get thousands of dollars for college for "free", but 18 year olds aren't known for making the best decisions.

- NCSU

 

Sounds like you got a free ride