Why do people strike?
#91
Originally Posted by referee54
My union looks to make sure that the employee is TREATED FAIRLY; it makes sure that proper procedures are in place and are utilized when reprimanding, evaluating, or terminating an employee. Employees can be terminated, but the admins. must follow the correct procedure in order to assure that everybody's rights (according to the contract) have not been violated.
You can get rid of an empoyee that is not working at an acceptable level---you simply follow the defined and agreed-upon procedures in doing so. I don't see what is terribly wrong with that.
It also guarantees that a reduction in force (RIF) plan is properly implemented if conditons warrant it.
Tim C.
You can get rid of an empoyee that is not working at an acceptable level---you simply follow the defined and agreed-upon procedures in doing so. I don't see what is terribly wrong with that.
It also guarantees that a reduction in force (RIF) plan is properly implemented if conditons warrant it.
Tim C.
#92
Originally Posted by swank07'
PSS-MAG
May I ask what kind of work you do?
Are there other businesses that "are" union in your field of work in your local area?
That is great that your employer takes care of his employees, it is a sign the unions have done there job by setting a standard in your work field.
He must stay competitive with benefits other wise he might loose workers to the shop that is union.
Perks?? You mean like both a retirement package AND a 401k investment package, stock options, free education, reimbursment for work shoes, work clothing, Discounts on purchases\services from local\international businesses etc.. like I recieve??
May I ask what kind of work you do?
Are there other businesses that "are" union in your field of work in your local area?
That is great that your employer takes care of his employees, it is a sign the unions have done there job by setting a standard in your work field.
He must stay competitive with benefits other wise he might loose workers to the shop that is union.
Perks?? You mean like both a retirement package AND a 401k investment package, stock options, free education, reimbursment for work shoes, work clothing, Discounts on purchases\services from local\international businesses etc.. like I recieve??
There are very few unions in this aea anymore in any field. 15 years ago it was 50/50 union/non union now all the union jobs are in mexico.
Including my old job at VF jeans wear making Wrangler Jeans, and my father in laws Teamster job at Highland Dairy, they were also the last union shop in the company and got shut down 1.5 years before he retired and screwed him out of his retirement....... Luckily the mean old company that the union was protecting him form, was nice enough to let him finish it out in another non union shop so he could get the full benifits he had earned...... The teamsters were no where to be found.... they took his union dues and split.
The only unions left here are a very few teamsters.
Perks?? You mean like both a retirement package AND a 401k investment package, stock options, free education, reimbursment for work shoes, work clothing, Discounts on purchases\services from local\international businesses etc.. like I recieve??
Thats pretty standard in all industries here.....
In fact most of that is required by law for anyone with more than 25 employees.
Except we dont get just stock options... we have thise too but we are also given shares....
Perks are things like weekly bonuses on top of weekly pay just for doing a good job and even more for going above and beyond, mileage reimbursment for going to work and back home, paid from the time my butt hits the seats in the F150 each morning until I pull back in the drive. Yes I get paid for my drive time plus reimbursed for my mileage to work and back. .... meal allowance ($10 a day) to buy lunchs. Plus many more that I am sure that I take for granted and assume is standard.
Last edited by PSS-Mag; 10-11-2007 at 09:58 PM.
#93
Originally Posted by scott1981
Why is this needed? If your not treated fairly then go find another job in your field. Im sure whatever you do more than 1 company does it. A good company would be afraid to loose good, hard working & knowledgable employees so they would treat you fairly from the start without the need for a union
I teach; I have been a professional educator now for nearly 31 years. I could go elsewhere. but I would lose a tremendous amount of seniority as well as pay. It is also of note that teaching jobs in Northern Ohio are in short supply.
While I have a continuing contract, you must also recognize that a district can terminate one veteran teacher's contract and hire another "rookie" in order to save $$$.
Talk to many admins.---they will tell you that while the educator with more experience is definitely more desirable, many will also tell you that they have been told to hire the newer person in order to save $$$. Saving $$$ makes sense, doesn't it? Except when you ask yourself, "What is the price tag for a superior education?"
And yes, in my 31 years, I have had mostly extremely ethical admins., but there have been ones that have been less than ethical, too.
Tim C.
Last edited by referee54; 10-11-2007 at 10:18 PM.
#94
BTW, Scott1981, if I were to leave my current place of employment and if I was lucky enough to be hired elsewhere, by the general rules of hiring practices here in Northern Ohio I would most likely lose $28,000. That is right, Scott, $28,000.
I might get hired, but not at the salary at which I earn presently. It isn't as easy as you say it is...at least not in my field, in my area in which I reside.
Tim C.
I might get hired, but not at the salary at which I earn presently. It isn't as easy as you say it is...at least not in my field, in my area in which I reside.
Tim C.
#95
Originally Posted by referee54
BTW, Scott1981, if I were to leave my current place of employment and if I was lucky enough to be hired elsewhere, by the general rules of hiring practices here in Northern Ohio I would most likely lose $28,000. That is right, Scott, $28,000.
I might get hired, but not at the salary at which I earn presently. It isn't as easy as you say it is...at least not in my field, in my area in which I reside.
Tim C.
I might get hired, but not at the salary at which I earn presently. It isn't as easy as you say it is...at least not in my field, in my area in which I reside.
Tim C.
#96
In Ohio, we do not have a state-wide pay scale for teachers. It differs from school district to school district. For ecxample, if you consider where I teach, if I was teaching one district to the east, I would be making $5700 more per year; one district to the south, and I would be making $2300 less.
The other hiring practice here in education is that they do not HAVE to give you all of your years of experience. I might be lucky to be hired and givien credit for a max of seven years, instead of my 30 prior to this one.
I could say,"Phooey", and leave, but I probably wouldn't get hired becasue of current hiring practices, or, if I did get hired elsewhere, I would lose around $28,000 (average.) That is a loss that I cannot afford to take.
Tim C.
The other hiring practice here in education is that they do not HAVE to give you all of your years of experience. I might be lucky to be hired and givien credit for a max of seven years, instead of my 30 prior to this one.
I could say,"Phooey", and leave, but I probably wouldn't get hired becasue of current hiring practices, or, if I did get hired elsewhere, I would lose around $28,000 (average.) That is a loss that I cannot afford to take.
Tim C.
#97
Originally Posted by scott1981
I guess it must be a difference of areas and jobs, as I havent heard of anything like this from my friends and family. Glad yall got something that works for ya
In any industry, any job, any place, as you gain seniority (AKA time served) you get more vacation, you should be constantly climbing a pay scale, alot of places have "top pay" though which is great for the newbies, especially the unmotivated, it gives them a goal to work for, but stinks for seniors that have reached it. They are often no longer motivated and then wonder why they get fired..... DUH...... They quit doing thier job after they hit top pay...... technically they didnt get fired, they got let go, becasue they quit along time ago.....showing up isn't working...
I digress, aloing with time served often come other advantages for being there so long. Companies like loyalty and often compensate for it. If tehy dont then those often have high turn over and spend alot of money in training.
ETA
Even an expericned worker must be trained to the companies standards and practices. Often times experinced workers bring bad habits along with them and spread them to the other workers. Although ussually they bring new ideas and sometimes better ways to do things they have learned from experince over the years too. But there is still that training process that takes between 8 weeks to 6 months of time and money invested.
End edit:
To quit one and go to another you often "almost always" lose all the advantages you gain with senority including pay and have to start back over at teh bottom with the new place.
Last edited by PSS-Mag; 10-11-2007 at 10:50 PM.
#98
I am locked in where I teach; in other words, I can't go anywhere else because of what I am making now and what I would stand to lose.
I didn't get into education to make a great deal of money---my paternal grandfather, maternal grandmother, my dad, mom, and one aunt were all teachers, so I knew what I was getting into.
I know I won't get rich; one of my relatives with the same education as me is making 4X's my salary...but I do love wht I do, and I love seeing kids succeed; not only in school, but in life.
That being said, though, I do wish to be paid for what I am worth, and be treated fairly. My union helps to see to that.
Tim C.
I didn't get into education to make a great deal of money---my paternal grandfather, maternal grandmother, my dad, mom, and one aunt were all teachers, so I knew what I was getting into.
I know I won't get rich; one of my relatives with the same education as me is making 4X's my salary...but I do love wht I do, and I love seeing kids succeed; not only in school, but in life.
That being said, though, I do wish to be paid for what I am worth, and be treated fairly. My union helps to see to that.
Tim C.
#99
I'm afraid I'm going to have to call shenanigains on your story.
I don't care what state you live in, no-where is it written in law that a company has to provide you anything except withdrawing your taxes and a paycheck.
I've provided you with access to my entire contract http://www.iam751.org/2005_contract/
I guess if you cannot show me your benefits package I'll have to take your word on it, which I will.
Your father who devoted years to the teamsters has a pretty hefty lawsuit on his hands since he was a dues paying member and if he was in good standing , he is entitiled by law to his teamsters retirement ( I can give you the internationals brotherhood of teamsters phone# and address in D.C. if you want).
$10.00 a day? $65.00 is our industries standard.
But hey we are in different parts of the country so I guess that's the difference.
I would also be willing to bet that you are putting your retirement and 401k as a single benefit. Mine are 2 seperate entities, 401k is matched $0.50 on the dollar, in addition to the retirement benefit.
Stocks (not options, I was typing and messed that up) are usually 5-10k per employee every year of the contract.
So if you want or care to go toe to toe with benefit packages, wages, retirement, 401k, stocks options and or shares, lets go..
I'll start:::
Wages... I'm a grade 8 maxed wage. A person maxes after 6 yrs on the job, a $0.50 progression step, till your 6th yr then a lump sum.
It doesn't cost to belong...IT PAYS
To see how much it pays to belong, click here. http://www.iam751.org/framebrowser.p...org/wage-card/
I haven't bashed you, and I appreciate you not bashing me.
I'm here to defend what I believe in and so are you.
I'm not going to drop to those levels, and I respect you for doing the same.
I don't care what state you live in, no-where is it written in law that a company has to provide you anything except withdrawing your taxes and a paycheck.
I've provided you with access to my entire contract http://www.iam751.org/2005_contract/
I guess if you cannot show me your benefits package I'll have to take your word on it, which I will.
Your father who devoted years to the teamsters has a pretty hefty lawsuit on his hands since he was a dues paying member and if he was in good standing , he is entitiled by law to his teamsters retirement ( I can give you the internationals brotherhood of teamsters phone# and address in D.C. if you want).
$10.00 a day? $65.00 is our industries standard.
But hey we are in different parts of the country so I guess that's the difference.
I would also be willing to bet that you are putting your retirement and 401k as a single benefit. Mine are 2 seperate entities, 401k is matched $0.50 on the dollar, in addition to the retirement benefit.
Stocks (not options, I was typing and messed that up) are usually 5-10k per employee every year of the contract.
So if you want or care to go toe to toe with benefit packages, wages, retirement, 401k, stocks options and or shares, lets go..
I'll start:::
Wages... I'm a grade 8 maxed wage. A person maxes after 6 yrs on the job, a $0.50 progression step, till your 6th yr then a lump sum.
It doesn't cost to belong...IT PAYS
To see how much it pays to belong, click here. http://www.iam751.org/framebrowser.p...org/wage-card/
I haven't bashed you, and I appreciate you not bashing me.
I'm here to defend what I believe in and so are you.
I'm not going to drop to those levels, and I respect you for doing the same.
Last edited by swank07'; 10-11-2007 at 10:58 PM.
#100
Originally Posted by PSS-Mag
Thats not really a union -vs- non union thing though....
In any industry, any job, any place, as you gain seniority (AKA time served) you get more vacation, you should be constantly climbing a pay scale, alot of places have "top pay" though which is great for the newbies, especially the unmotivated, it gives them a goal to work for, but stinks for seniors that have reached it. They are often no longer motivated and then wonder why they get fired..... DUH...... They quit doing thier job after they hit top pay...... technically they didnt get fired, they got let go, becasue they quit along time ago.....showing up isn't working...
I digress, aloing with time served often come other advantages for being there so long. Companies like loyalty and often compensate for it. If tehy dont then those often have high turn over and spend alot of money in training.
To quit one and go to another you often "almost always" lose all the advantages you gain with senority including pay and have to start back over at teh bottom with the new place.
In any industry, any job, any place, as you gain seniority (AKA time served) you get more vacation, you should be constantly climbing a pay scale, alot of places have "top pay" though which is great for the newbies, especially the unmotivated, it gives them a goal to work for, but stinks for seniors that have reached it. They are often no longer motivated and then wonder why they get fired..... DUH...... They quit doing thier job after they hit top pay...... technically they didnt get fired, they got let go, becasue they quit along time ago.....showing up isn't working...
I digress, aloing with time served often come other advantages for being there so long. Companies like loyalty and often compensate for it. If tehy dont then those often have high turn over and spend alot of money in training.
To quit one and go to another you often "almost always" lose all the advantages you gain with senority including pay and have to start back over at teh bottom with the new place.
Seniority is a HUGE factor in our department, not just with the reps but with upper management also. It's obvious in this type of position, the more experience you have, the more you make.
It is no way advantageous for us to "churn and burn" employees just to pay a smaller comission. However, there are many sales organizations out there that do benefit from this practice, and I've worked for them. It's these same organizations that believe they should invest little to no money in training, and focus that effort more on marketing.
#101
Originally Posted by referee54
My union looks to make sure that the employee is TREATED FAIRLY; it makes sure that proper procedures are in place and are utilized when reprimanding, evaluating, or terminating an employee. Employees can be terminated, but the admins. must follow the correct procedure in order to assure that everybody's rights (according to the contract) have not been violated.
You can get rid of an empoyee that is not working at an acceptable level---you simply follow the defined and agreed-upon procedures in doing so. I don't see what is terribly wrong with that.
It also guarantees that a reduction in force (RIF) plan is properly implemented if conditons warrant it.
Tim C.
You can get rid of an empoyee that is not working at an acceptable level---you simply follow the defined and agreed-upon procedures in doing so. I don't see what is terribly wrong with that.
It also guarantees that a reduction in force (RIF) plan is properly implemented if conditons warrant it.
Tim C.
I don't really think there's much room for negotiations or rights in that regard, if the employee is a detriment to the company, and they can prove so beyond reasonable doubt, then they have every reason they need to terminate them.
The "reduction in force" though, that sounds like a nice term for a layoff, right?
I guess I'll go ahead and explain my bias against unions as well. The part that really bothers me about most unions, and I'll get my biggest, broadest brush for this, is that members don't seem to get anywhere on their own merits; they rely on the union to negotiate for them, instead of letting their skills, experience, and qualifications talk for them. There's just something morally wrong about that to me...I was raised to believe that a man's worth what he can put on the table himself. Let his skill, experience, and performance on the job speak for him, not the union.
#103
#104
Originally Posted by swank07'
So as a individual, you think you could negotiate a better benefit package for yourself. Better than everyone you work with negotiating with the company together?
Originally Posted by referee54
I didn't get into education to make a great deal of money---my paternal grandfather, maternal grandmother, my dad, mom, and one aunt were all teachers, so I knew what I was getting into.
This is one of the best debates I've heard and have been a part of. There are strong and valid arguments from sides of the spectrum, and I can see where the union members are coming from. But for me, it boils down to an unfair world, society and work environment. My experience has always been, if you work hard you will be rewarded for your efforts. Union's attitudes seem to be "if you show up, you will be rewarded for your efforts, no matter how hard you work."
They help establish a fair work environment and benefits, among other things. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Now however, they seem to make more of an attempt to retain what is already established, which most individuals should be able to do on their own IMO. The groundwork has already been layed, it's on your shoulders to utilize it for it's maximum potential. That's why they call it "the real world."
I'm heading to bed.... TGIF - have a good night fellas... Seacrest out!
Last edited by jk007; 10-12-2007 at 12:31 AM.
#105
Originally Posted by jk007
They help establish a fair work environment and benefits, among other things. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Now however, they seem to make more of an attempt to retain what is already established, which most individuals should be able to do on their own IMO. The groundwork has already been layed, it's on your shoulders to utilize it for it's maximum potential. That's why they call it "the real world."
I just refuse to take the stand point of a victim of life. I make my own choices. I choose where I work and what conditions I work under.