I bet you would......
Teachers dont become teachers to get rich, becasue they dont. They dont become teachers for the perks, becasue there are few to non. Teachers become teachers because they have a desire to better society. You seem to have that desire as demonstrated in your post.
You would be a teacher regardless, maybe not where you are, but somewhere. Education is a ruthless entanglment of beuracatic red tape and poltics. Half of my co-workers are retired teachers and administration. They have given me alot of insight to the behind the scenes. It really sucks....

 

From that website:

Here's how I translate this.

"Instead of getting somewhere on my own virtues and merits, I'll have big brother union step up to the plate and go to bat for me. Self sufficiency? Ha, what a crock of a s@#$!"

Maybe at one time, when working conditions were crap, and pay was too, unions would have their place. Not anymore, sorry.

And I should have known better than to ask my original question...how would I get an unbiased answer from anyone, union or not.

ETA - And you constantly bring up Lockheed Martin. We're talking auto unions here. Unless you feel you have something to defend...

ETA again - Okay, lemme rephrase again, and let's try not to turn this into another union bash fest. All you union members here, another question - What benefits does the union get you that you normally wouldn't be able to get yourself without union representation?

 

Ref,

I respect the fact that you are a teacher. Both my parents are teachers, both my sisters are teachers, and so are many Aunts and Uncles of mine here in Michigan, all are union also. You could say that I'm the black sheep of the family. However, this is the career path that you elected to take.

I'm in sales and no I don't go home after work and grade papers, but my day also doesn't end @ 5:00. I am constanty looking for new leads, sending out emails and tying up loose ends. You sound very dedicated to your job, as am I. I'm not saying your job is easy, but on top of the summer break most teachers also receive about 2 weeks vacation around Christmas and another week around Easter. I don't agree with the comment of "more money, less work" but you can't expect too much sympathy for taking the extra step when it comes to educating our youth either.

I did sub for a while and teaching is not for me. In my position though, it is cut-thoat. 75% of my income is comission based and there is fierce competition. I too take classes to educate myself on new sales techniques and new product lines, am evaluated by my Sales Manager and I am always looking for new opportunities in my spare time. The difference is, if I don't sell then my family goes hungry. If I don't sell, then I am fired. And I don't have the protection of a Union backing me up and defending me.

I have my BA and a Masters is not needed for my position or any management position that I may someday move into. And if I was to get my Masters, it would have no effect on my income, as it does with teachers. Honestly though, I think I would go crazy if I didn't have a position in which I was constantly being challenged to better myself like your teaching position. But let's face it, you didn't become a teacher for the money, you probably became a teacher because you like helping others (without making too many assumptions). I went into sales strictly for the money. Both positions are challenging but again, this is what you chose to do, as did I. But I'm not throwing out open invitations to members to try their hand at sales, which it appears you are doing as a means for justifying and keeping Unions around.

 

Good luck with that one, they still haven't been able to answer my question.

What does an auto company get in return for its extra investment of union workers? To ask the question a different way, what does a union worker do that a non-union doesn't?

If the answer is nothing (it is) I want a refund for the union added costs on my last three new truck purchases.

 

Once again, you union bashers, even the ones who say you aren't bashing unions, show your complete ignorance on the subject. Way to go.

 

And here you go again, ducking a legitimate question.

Or do I have to see your union rep to get an answer to that?

 

We get better benefits than non represented employees because the union fights for them on our behalf.

Back to my union job.

 

Benefits such as? Plenty of non-union workers out there have medical, dental, retirement, life insurance, vacation, sick leave, etc.

I wanna hear your specific experience, and any other unionites out there reading this, yours too. I don't care about some link from a union website blabbing about random experiences without giving us a date/timeframe of the examples in question. I wanna hear first hand experiences, what didn't you have before the union, and what you got because of the union.

I'd like an answer to this (damn good, BTW) question too:
You wanna talk smack about ignorant and misinformed union bashing, that's fine. Don't do it without setting the record straight and answering the questions when they're asked.

 

Then I want the UAW to write me a check for at least $3k per truck. I don't give a rat's a$$ about the worker's benefits. If they don't have the mental capability to find a better place to work than why should I pay for it? When I go to a cat lot I am buying a vehicle, not doing charity work.

 

Since we're not seeing much hard data from the union workers let's see what the non-union workers get.
At my current job as a heavy duty mechanic for a very small privately owned shop (non-union) I get a decent wage of 28.00 an hour. I've only been there a little over a year so I'm still a few bucks behind the old timers.
I also get my medical and dental paid for 100%. (Even in Canada there's no such thing as free healthcare).
I get two weeks paid holidays plus lieu days if a holiday falls on a regular day off. Everyone who works there gets along with each other including management.
Every year we get sent to Cat and Cummins courses that are paid for by the shop plus all the free online training we want. Some years we even do tranny and differential courses.
Each December we sponsor a fishing tournament that ends at the shop for the weigh-in and free beer and food.
Our beer fridge is usually stocked by happy customers so we have something to look forward to each day at 5:00.
Every Friday the bosses wife supplies lunch. She'll either BBQ that day or make something at home the night before.
I'm very happy with my job and not sure how a union could make it much better.

The company I worked for before this was much bigger and the shop I was at was non-union.
Wage: 27.00
Vacation: 3 weeks/yr because I had been there 5 years
Sick days: 5 per year
Tool/boot allowance: 275.00 yr
Health care: They paid 50% and I paid 50%
Profit sharing: In the 5 years I was there it was never less than 2% of my annual gross each year.
401k/RRSP: 100% match up to my first 4% contribution and 50% beyond 4%
Training: 80hrs per year of training for every mechanic. Engines, electrical, tires, tranny, etc. They also payed 500.00 for me to take my test to get my HD mechanics license and another 120.00 to get my Safety Inspection ticket.
Awards: We got trinkets for safety awards but also had tech challenges in which I snagged over 1000.00 tax free bucks over the last three years I was there with free trips to Oakland, Ca for moving up in the challenges. Each leevl took you to a different city to compete. I sucked so I never got past Oakland once I won in our area.
Party: One at Christmas sponsored by the shop and one each summer off the books sponsored by the bosses where we could drink to our hearts content with plenty of free cab slips for the way home.
Many many of the other shops in this company were and are union. Funny thing is, they didn't get anymore than we did other than pay differentials which were more or less depending on the city.

I only left my last job because I wanted out of the city and back to the country. I've always been taught that if you do what you say you can do and do it well you will be compensated accordingly. If you don't think it's fair compensation than load up your tools and go elsewhere. I like to think I can get what I want just by doing what I do and doing it well.

 

its against the law for me to be in a union. what would happen if all of us health care workers went on strike? hmmmm. actually i think nurses got a union before they slipped that law into effect. unions always seem to pop up where, for the most part, uneducated people work in large numbers. but my wife, a teacher is in a union, and i am glad. as much bullsnit goes on with teachers and kids parents blaming the teachers for them being retarded, its good to have a union because a lot of pecker headed admins at schools never seem to side with the teachers because they are scared of groups like aclu or naacp, etc etc. i think i am against unions, but if i was in one, i sure would think was the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Good for you. Some good old American spirit you have there. What a waste of oxygen.

 

If you go to a cat yard to buy a vehicle do you go to a dog yard to buy a motorcyle?

 

Every union represents its members the same for the most part. Better benefits. Do you have benefits at your place of work? Well, mine are better than yours.

Have a good day, and remember, we're all union members in the U.S. of A.

http://uaw.com/publications/jobs_pay/02/no3/jpe05.html

http://www.jobquality.ca/indicator_e/uni004.stm

http://www.uaw.org/organize/advantage.cfm

http://www.goiam.org/member-advantages.cfm

http://www.massnurses.org/labor/educ...y/benefits.htm

 

Better benefits? Sounds like more pay for no more than the same amount of work to me - actually it's prolly LESS because you get time off on the clock to go to your union meetings. Takes it off the top of the bottom line, causing what I pay for your product to be more expensive.

You are dodging Quintin's questions - I have the same questions.

What makes a union-made product better than a non-union made product? I have to say that NOTHING does - it's the same damn product. If anything, a union-made product is inferior because of your union rules - your employer has to jump through so many grievance hoops to fire a poor or non-producer that they just don't bother.

I would hazard a guess that all a union member can show me is how the union helps ME ME ME - *NOT* how it has ANY benefits for the consumer - the poor schmuck that buys and uses your product.