I build the F-35 Lightning II. Only union represented hands can build it. You pay your taxes, you pay my wages.

Non productive union workers get fired where I work, just like anywhere else, even your job.

 

I must say thanks for keeping quality aircaraft in the air. But the union for the aircraft industry must better than the UAW. Being in the automotive industry I've seen plenty of very non-productive UAW workers and most of the management says their hands are tied and have to jump through so many loops to get them fired they don't even bother. I believe that some Unions have a just cause but it seems that the UAW is doing nothing but hurting the Big three mainly cause they are so far in debt and can't find their way out(which started 20-30 years ago when they ignored the imports)

 

 

So in other words, you can't (or won't) answer any of my questions, or anyone elses' questions. You bitch and moan and gripe about ignorant union bashing, but you won't set the record straight and educate us so we won't be ignorant union bashers.

I don't care what the UAW says, what IAM, Mass Nurses, the Teamsters, or Santa Claus' Elves Local #69 says, I want to hear specifically, first hand from their members, what has the union done for you? What do you have now with the union in place, as opposed to if you didn't have the union? Whatever benefits you've got thanks to the union, would you be able to get them yourself without the union? What makes a union built product better than a non-union built product? What benefit is the union to the company or to the country?

You post links from biased organizations instead of relating to us your personal experiences with the union. I'll be the first one to admit, I don't exactly know what the union gets you, and I'd like to know so I can make informed statements instead of SWAGs; however, judging by your reluctance to answer questions, maybe my SWAGs aren't all that wild ***, maybe they're pretty accurate.

You build fighter jets. I was thinking about this scenario last night: Suppose your union decided to strike - let's assume the SHTF at Lockheed. Maybe the benefits package wasn't what employees want, maybe they want regular instead of decaf coffee in the breakroom, whatever. Of course, this happens while you guys are in the middle of a build, and last I checked there's a big two way shooting range over on the other side of the planet that we're involved in.

So now, the United States and its allies don't have state of the art fighter craft to go out there and defend itself with. Sure, we've got other birds to send over there and kill people. But, your union's (and its members') actions have potentially compromised the security of the United States.

How'd you feel about that? Protect the union members, at the cost of the company and/or the country?

 

This is about to get good

 

Any other union members, please feel free to speak up. I genuinely don't know, and would like to know at least in terms of benefits received. I understand not all of you may have been working pre-union at the same place you're at now, but any experiences you can relate, I'd appreciate it.

I've pretty much resigned to getting a straight answer from Stealth; part of me thinks he's so upset over this union bashing because he fits the stereotypical model of a union member...and he knows it.

 

I'm in a union. It's actually a public service union (yeah, I'm a lazy gov't employee), and in all honesty, the private sector in many cases have better benefits.
This isn't comparing apples to apples with the UAW or CAW however.

The union has it's pro's and con's. I won't bore you with those pro's and con's because they really don't relate to this topic. For the most part however, I'd say the union does F all. Unfortunately, when people apply for a certain career/job, the option of whether they want to be in a union or not is not theirs.

 

Quinton, did you read what I had to say? Not always is it about $$$---it could be about the work environment; for me sometimesit is about class size.

Tim C.

 

Here's the perfect example of why the unions are no longer needed.

My wife is an RN for a local hospital she makes almost $25/hr her health ins costs $0, the family plan is $88 a month with $0 ded if we go to a doctor that is affiliated with the hosp. or if we go to the hosp. itself. Dental is $7 a month and she has all the usual holidays, sick time, vacation, etc. She works 3 days a week 12 hours a shift and usually cares for 4 to 7 patients and never more than 9. She stays busy but she is never pushed over her limit to care for each patient.

On the other hand there is a hospital 20 miles away were thier nurses are union, they are on strike because they say they want respect, the real reason is they care for the same amount of patients each day BUT they want it in thier contract to say they don't want to care for more than 4. AND they don't want to work overtime either. So in other words, they want the hospital to hire more nurses to do the same job so they don't have to work as hard. They get paid more than my wife, the bennys are supposedly better (I don't have the full run down on them) and now they want to do half the work. They voted down a contract that would have given them $500 bonus' yearly raises, no cost family health/dental and 10 hour shifts. Now THAT'S a modern union for ya.

 

My wife is in much the same boat. She workes for a elected official. Guess what, his right hand-men have gotten large raises over the years while the workers and managers have gotten a base couple of percent. He has also hired in new managers that supervise 5-8 people at a higher salary than a 24 year manager that supervises over 25 people, an 18 year manager supervising 15, etc. He then fought the union formation for about a year and spent close to 500k of tax-payer dollars trying to fight something that is legal and is the right of the workers. They are not looking for a free ride (well, I'm sure some are) but they are looking for fairness in the workplace. Brining in a new manager with less duties and responsibility at a higher pay-rate than a 24 year vet is a slap in the face. If it takes a union to even out the playing ground, so be it.

 

Tim, sorry about that, I got a little tunnel vision earlier. Thanks for your insight.

 

I have been following this topic and it is so out of hand.

Trying to convince someone who is anti-union is like trying to convince a liberal that conservative views are better. It will not happen..... unless you see it first hand.


Growing up my dad was in upper management for a tire manufacturer. He was very anti union; therefore so was I. He hated having to deal with them, negotiate, etc. When I took a job at Ford, my dad, Mr. Antiunion, said it was a great move because companies could care less about ANY employee. He told me about all the times good, hardworking people who he wanted working for him were passed over for favors to someone else. How he got screwed, how his job was eliminated many times, left out to dry to find another job with the company. Between 1975 and 1985 we moved 7 times. Growing up I thought "hey, dad got promoted". Come to find out his jobs many times were eliminated or given to someone else and he was told to find another department to work in. He was finally "forced" (bought out) to retire so his boss could get a younger employee in his job. After hearing how bad unions were my whole life, here is my dad telling me that more people should have unions to protect them.

Yes, I understand there are problems with unions, but ours has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. These stories of people just sitting around does not really happen anymore. We have helped to make our plant leaner, more efficient and a better place to work.

The union is still needed and unless you work in that environment you would not understand. A good example is that it takes almost 60 seconds to do each job on the line. There are approx. 250 jobs in the trim shop where I work. Right now they are trying to eliminate 25 jobs out of our department. OK, now that work still has to be done but now they want to add a little here and there to other jobs. They jobs that get work added already take 60 seconds to do but now they want you to move faster. That is where the union comes in. The committeeman can talk to management and help get these issues settled. Obviously quality is going to go down, but if you stop the line because of a problem, management runs over and turns the line back on BEFORE asking what the problem is. A couple weeks ago the 13mm socket I use ( Ford pays $80.00 for this socket) shattered, I stopped the line to get a new one, which they had to order, the supervisor runs over, turns on the line then says, What's wrong? I tell him and he just lets the line keep going.
Every year they try to eliminate 20-25 jobs in my department alone and try to add more work to others. See, we cannot just stop what we are doing and go talk out a problem like most white collar and many blue collar jobs.

There are many benefits the union does help us get. From Holidays that are not common to most employees, ie. Election day, Veterans day, the Monday after Easter, MLK day, to healthcare issues that are not the norm, mental health, dependancy, etc, to legal services, to group insurance, tuition assistance, to helping line workers with ergo issues to cut down on injuries. No company would just give these things to employees. These are the type of things the union negotiates for us to make our lives better.

Unions are our agents. They do help make things better for line workers and yes, management also. These holidays we get off management gets off with pay also. Agents negotiate the best deal for their clients. That is what the union does for me. They get me the best deal they can possibly get. It takes 2 signatures to sign an agreement so don't put all the blame on the union.

 

screwbuilder, thanks for addressing some of my questions. I have some more, and some answers to what you've posted, but I'll save them 'till I get home this evening.

 

Most of the cost difference between UAW plants and the foreign brands has to do with legacy costs. GM has 3 retirees for every active worker. Ford is at 1.5 retirees per worker. The new contracts are dealing with that issue and the union is taking most of the responsibility for retirees now. Also the new 2 tier pay scale is going to help out a lot. Again the union doing what it can to make the company better. I never see anyone give the union credit for giving up things, just bashing for what they fought for in the past and argreed upon by the companies. They are not getting a pay cut so obviously that was not a major concern for GM. Line workers at foreign plants make in the neighborhood of $20.00/hr. and more in many cases.

 

A few weeks ago I was called into labor and told I had 5 unexcused absences in the past year. I was like....what the hell are they talking about. I never miss work and anyone on the line would vouch for that. So, I went to the committeeman's office, he punched up history, pay, etc. and It didn't make any sense. So I went back and talked to the guy in laborville, he said he believed me and that something was wrong, told me to go back to work but "you better get this figured out and fast". Well, I saw my committeeman the next day and he said he got it fixed. The supervisor I had at the time was quitting the company and apparently he was marking people absent but somehow we still got paid. I would not of had the means or the time to get this figured out and fixed but the committeeman is there to take care of things like this.