Reality is unbiased...

 

Again, reality will help you see the way...

 

Except when that reality isn't.

 

I think that's Jesus you're thinking of.

 

Revrund !!!

 

The media?? What about the actual product? I think that's what most are complaining about. Superb workmanship deserves superb pay, hands down. However, we don't have that. We have superb pay for mediocre to horrid workmanship.

SL

 

I can't speak for any one other than my experience as a police officer. I've been in a union at two different places. Both required a one year probationary period, where you could be fired "for having a a booger hanging out of your nose." The first place I worked at had horrible leadership and was only changed by with the help of the union. The second had horrible workers and is one of the reasons I left. The pay at the first one was in line with the other agencies in the area. The second we were so far below the median we could not attract a decent recruit. We had to have at least 60 hours of college and put ourselves through the police academy. So in total we had to have about 2.5 years of education to even be considered. Now if you wanted the job make sure you have either a four year degree or experience. All of this came with a paycheck of 32,000 per year. After obtaining the four year degree you could easily start at a higher pay in another industry, but we were still paid a lot better than our non-union counterparts. Those officer's are still looking at low to mid 20,000 for starting pay.

The biggest benefit I saw for the employer was that if an officer screwed up they could easily be suspended. Many times those officers stayed on suspension until the investigation was complete, sometimes 6-9 months later. These same officers normally would seek employment elsewhere and wouldn't return to the agency.

 

The reality is, Unions will be around all the way until we all die.

You guys can bitch and moan about how much you hate Unions but the fact of the matter is, were going to be around a long long time to come, so stop wasting your breath to complain, and just mind your own business and just worry about what you have to do for work, not others.

all I can say is that I can work circles around a Non-Union Laborer, why u ask? To become a Laborer you have to do a 4 year schooling coarse (apprenticeship) to learn and train how to do this job. But yet, even after 4 years, you guys still say were "UNSKILLED" when the fact is any bum can walk and get a job as a Laborer Non-Union and not know a damn thing what to do. I call that UNSKILLED, and very very Dangerous as non-Union does not have the skill nor education to know what to do in a work place.


UNION = SKILLED
Non-Union= Unskilled, un Educated

 

A “skilled” job is generally a trade such as electrician, plumber, carpenter etc. An ‘unskilled” job is a person on a manufacturing floor building something such as most those on the floor where Ford vehicles get built.

Building a vehicle, regardless if you do training or not, is NOT a “skilled” job because anybody can do it within days or weeks. Manufacturing jobs, at least at any kind of company that is decent, has processes and procedures for the employee to follow.

Building a vehicle is very simple and you can have a process with step by step instructions on exactly how to do it the same way every time. There is no decision the employee has to make on their own but rather on what the process tells them to do.

Skilled labor, such as an electrician, does not have process and procedures with step by step instructions. Yes there are codes and processes for many things an electrician does but when they run into an electrical problem they have to troubleshoot and while some troubleshooting has particular processes in which one would go by as a general rule there is NO step by step process since the education of being an electrician is how an electrician determines which step will be their next step in troubleshooting to find the root cause of a problem and then solve it.

A production floor person does not need to be educated since there is a step by step for everything they do and thus anybody, including the teenager from McDonalds, could do a production job at Ford, ANYBODY can build a vehicle on a production floor, no education required…

Unions will NOT be around much longer 5, 10, perhaps 15 years you will see the unions get smaller and smaller, at least for UNSKILLED jobs such as those on Ford’s production floor. Main reason is since those jobs are UNSKILLED they can move them over the border and have other UNSKILLED labor do them for much less money.

The day’s of paying someone $20 - $30 an hour for doing unskilled work are done and over its just a matter of time until those jobs go away for good…

It will be good for America and all of its citizens because it will mean the return of quality products at a FAIR price for ALL, just look at Toyota and you see what tomorrow looks like for Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc, either Ford, Chevy, and Dodge will have NO unions or they will move all or most production over the border or they will all go out of business…

Tomorrow is looking brighter everyday, thank Toyota for proving the way it should be done…

 

Summation

Unskilled= a robot can do it. (no decisions)
skilled= a robot can't do it......yet (decisios required)

 

Dont get nasty...you have made so many ridiculous statements in this thread alone that many could have ripped you apart. They didn't.

Union membership has been plummeting since the 1970s. The ONLY segment of society where union membership has risen is in the government.

I'll assume you are talking about your trade and not in general.

 

Matt..didn't you just happen to "get this job"? I dont remember you going to school for 4 years. So you're saying YOU are unskilled and in the union? I don't get the point you're trying to make. I do know you are so wrong saying a non-union worker is unskilled and the Union worker is skilled. Wasn't it you, the UNION worker who ran a bobcat into a wall? If thats a skilled union worker, then I NEVER want to be in a union.


BREW

 

I've been in Construction trades now going on 6 years, 4 of those years were apprentiships years, now I am Vested after 5 years. Last year was a bad year for work as I was with a bad company that got shut down since the boss retired, and I had a hard time finding a company to work with, but with time, it came and I couldn't be happier where I'm at now.

I didn't run the bob cat into a wall, the wall hit me!

 

Well, in that case.....



BREW

 

No he the skilled union worker was guiding another skilled union worker....right into the wall.