New Ford boss not wasting any time!
#32
09-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unions USE TO protect all its workers about 40 years ago. Today the Union ONLY protect the lazy and useless. No need for Unions today for UNSKILLED trades, and there is no need for Unions for SKILLED trades.
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
#33
09-15-2006, 08:18 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kcap150
Without the unions there would be no middle class
Does not compute...
Unions have nothing to do with the middle class since unions have much less membership today then 15 - 20 years ago. If anything unions destroy the middle class because the middle class pay MORE money then they should for products made by union employees...
#34
09-15-2006, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Quintin
If the union supported blue collar worker is working an unskilled trade (which assembling an automobile is), and worse yet, the union supported blue collar worker is turning out a poor quality product, then I have a difficult time justifying the wages and benefits that the union has negotiated for that blue collar worker.
I'm sure you do your job to it's highest quality and standards that you can muster. Most UAW assemblers, in my experience, don't.
I'm sure you do your job to it's highest quality and standards that you can muster. Most UAW assemblers, in my experience, don't.
Yes there are bad seeds, but they aren't just at the union shop.
#35
09-15-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by 01 XLT Sport
Unions USE TO protect all its workers about 40 years ago. Today the Union ONLY protect the lazy and useless. No need for Unions today for UNSKILLED trades, and there is no need for Unions for SKILLED trades.
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
#36
09-15-2006, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Stealth
Granted I build fighter jets for the U.S. government, yes, I do have to do quality work, a pilot's life is at stake as are the citizens of this country, but generalizing that all worker's work habits are poor because they are union workers is blasphemy.
Yes there are bad seeds, but they aren't just at the union shop.
Yes there are bad seeds, but they aren't just at the union shop.
Even if the unions were toast, yes, there's a good chance that the quality of the product would stay the same, or maybe even worsen. But it'd be one less thorn in Ford's side (and no, they ain't innocent either) to worry about towards recovering the company.
#37
09-15-2006, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Quintin
Agreed. However, there's a lot of dollars going towards paying men and women who aren't deserving of that grade of pay, given their skills (or lackthereof) and the work turned out.
Even if the unions were toast, yes, there's a good chance that the quality of the product would stay the same, or maybe even worsen. But it'd be one less thorn in Ford's side (and no, they ain't innocent either) to worry about towards recovering the company.
Even if the unions were toast, yes, there's a good chance that the quality of the product would stay the same, or maybe even worsen. But it'd be one less thorn in Ford's side (and no, they ain't innocent either) to worry about towards recovering the company.
#38
09-15-2006, 08:27 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ford
Originally Posted by Stealth
How can you justify what you just posted? It must be said solely by opinion.
Ford {Henry} made the middle class, I agree that the union does more than it should to help the lazy and no shows every day,I pay my dues, but have never needed the assistance..
#39
09-15-2006, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Stealth
Oh well, I guess I'll have to stick with my cush union job at the fighter jet factory making less than industry standard wages. *sigh*
I have seen UAW work first hand though, and I know how much they get paid. Something's not adding up here.
#40
09-15-2006, 08:31 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Money
Originally Posted by Quintin
Agreed. However, there's a lot of dollars going towards paying men and women who aren't deserving of that grade of pay, given their skills (or lackthereof) and the work turned out.
Even if the unions were toast, yes, there's a good chance that the quality of the product would stay the same, or maybe even worsen. But it'd be one less thorn in Ford's side (and no, they ain't innocent either) to worry about towards recovering the company.
Even if the unions were toast, yes, there's a good chance that the quality of the product would stay the same, or maybe even worsen. But it'd be one less thorn in Ford's side (and no, they ain't innocent either) to worry about towards recovering the company.
#41
09-15-2006, 08:33 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#42
09-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by kcap150
Ask Stealth if he deserves every dollar he makes, I work with no ac in 115 degree heat, that line never stops. Only a small % of my wages is put into a truck, most is componants and material..I bet quality would suffer greatly if you were making much less....
Now if I get laid off, it's probably back to sweatville again, but I'll still be making good money someplace else making planes at a non union shop contracting out for more money, but no benefits.
#43
09-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pikesville, MD
Posts: 2,079
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This argument has been voiced so many times before here. Most of us regulars can tell how the others are going to come down.
Its about a mindset.
I take personal responsibility for my career and livelihood. I don't want someone else arguing for me. I can take "the man" on by myself. Some feel they can't.
The last company I worked for had a great owner. There was talk of unionizing, the owner called everyone together.
He basically said:
"Look I do what I can for you. I am dumping my life's savings into this company to keep everyone employed during this downturn. You all do what you want but I will tell you this...I'll close the doors on this plant before I deal with any of the union crap."
The man had my full support. He sold everything he owned to keep that company running and to this day it keeps on going and it's coming back strong.
That is what the middle class worker needs not a union rep.
Its about a mindset.
I take personal responsibility for my career and livelihood. I don't want someone else arguing for me. I can take "the man" on by myself. Some feel they can't.
The last company I worked for had a great owner. There was talk of unionizing, the owner called everyone together.
He basically said:
"Look I do what I can for you. I am dumping my life's savings into this company to keep everyone employed during this downturn. You all do what you want but I will tell you this...I'll close the doors on this plant before I deal with any of the union crap."
The man had my full support. He sold everything he owned to keep that company running and to this day it keeps on going and it's coming back strong.
That is what the middle class worker needs not a union rep.
#44
09-15-2006, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amen
Originally Posted by 01 XLT Sport
Unions USE TO protect all its workers about 40 years ago. Today the Union ONLY protect the lazy and useless. No need for Unions today for UNSKILLED trades, and there is no need for Unions for SKILLED trades.
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
If your "really" skilled AND have good work ethics you will make some GOOD money. If your unskilled well you don't deserve to make any more money then any other non-skilled person. I ain't paying someone working at McDonalds $15 an hour to cook a hamburger and that same person at McDonalds can do ANY unskilled manufacturing job at Ford, its just a fact of life...
#45
09-15-2006, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by kcap150
What have you seen
I agree, parts from the lowest bidder do have a lot to do with it. But what is the assembler's fault?
I know, it was the assembler's fault for not saying anything about an '01 Town Car I worked on that didn't have a center front row seat belt. The floorpan never had a hole drilled in it for the stud to mount the seat belt, and never had a nut welded on the underside of the floorpan for the stud to thread in to. The seat was secured to the floorpan with only three nuts instead of four, which potentially could have been very bad in a serious collision. Now, someone had to bolt that seat to that floorpan at Wixom, and someone had to see that it only took three nuts instead of four. Why wasn't anything said before the car was shipped?
It was the assembler's fault for not saying anything about the '02 Navigator I worked on that wasn't equipped with the rear park aid system. The sensors in the bumper were there; too bad the module, the wiring, and the deactivation switch in the center console weren't. I thought these things were tested before loading onto the train? Someone installed a rear bumper that had park aid sensors on that truck. Someone installed a wiring harness that ran to the sensors. I guess the guy that installed the modules and the in vehicle wiring for the park aid must have called out sick that day.
It was the assembler's fault that several '05 Grand Marquis and Crown Victorias rolled off the line with improperly adjusted parking brake release handles. Someone installed the release handles and cables in these vehicles, and hopefully checked to see that the parking brake applied and released properly.
It was the assembler's fault that a Ford dealership here in town took delivery of a then new '98 Mustang Cobra convertible with Mustang GT brakes on the right front side, and Mustang Cobra brakes on the left front. I guess the GT and the Cobra parts bin must have got mixed up temporarily.
It was the assembler's fault that wiring in the 14A005 harness going to the passenger's side airbag pretensioner was smashed behind the parking brake pedal assembly, shorting to ground and turning the airbag light on in a 2006 Grand Marquis I worked on a few weeks ago. Someone drove this car out of the plant, and someone had to have seen the airbag light was on. Oh, my bad, "What airbag light, I thought that was the low fuel light."
It was the assembler's fault that we took delivery of 2004 Grand Marquis with leather seating in front, and a cloth bench in the rear. Someone installed that rear cloth bench, and someone installed the front leather seats. Between here and there, someone had to have seen that the seating in this car didn't match. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault that I've had to adjust the rear liftgate on at least 5 - 2006 Navigators right off the truck so the power liftgate would open and close properly. Some were so far out of adjustment that paint work was required afterwards, where the liftgate rubbed against the body. These gates were so far out of adjustment that one had to lean on the gate with a fair amount of weight to get it to latch shut. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault that several Grand Marquis were shipped likewise, with the rear door strikers so far out of adjustment that paint work was required after proper adjustment of the striker, since the door rubbed against the body. I know someone closed the rear doors in these cars when they were built; Ray Charles could have seen how badly the door fit against the body on these particular cars. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault (at the engine plant) that hundreds of engine oil drain plugs were left loose on 3.0 liter V6s in Fusions, Milans and Zephyrs.
I've got several more instances, if you want to hear 'em. Don't take this as a personal flame at all; a few bad apples screws it up for everyone. But I've seen this "quality" first hand, and if this is quality, I'm scared to ask "What isn't?"
I know, it was the assembler's fault for not saying anything about an '01 Town Car I worked on that didn't have a center front row seat belt. The floorpan never had a hole drilled in it for the stud to mount the seat belt, and never had a nut welded on the underside of the floorpan for the stud to thread in to. The seat was secured to the floorpan with only three nuts instead of four, which potentially could have been very bad in a serious collision. Now, someone had to bolt that seat to that floorpan at Wixom, and someone had to see that it only took three nuts instead of four. Why wasn't anything said before the car was shipped?
It was the assembler's fault for not saying anything about the '02 Navigator I worked on that wasn't equipped with the rear park aid system. The sensors in the bumper were there; too bad the module, the wiring, and the deactivation switch in the center console weren't. I thought these things were tested before loading onto the train? Someone installed a rear bumper that had park aid sensors on that truck. Someone installed a wiring harness that ran to the sensors. I guess the guy that installed the modules and the in vehicle wiring for the park aid must have called out sick that day.
It was the assembler's fault that several '05 Grand Marquis and Crown Victorias rolled off the line with improperly adjusted parking brake release handles. Someone installed the release handles and cables in these vehicles, and hopefully checked to see that the parking brake applied and released properly.
It was the assembler's fault that a Ford dealership here in town took delivery of a then new '98 Mustang Cobra convertible with Mustang GT brakes on the right front side, and Mustang Cobra brakes on the left front. I guess the GT and the Cobra parts bin must have got mixed up temporarily.
It was the assembler's fault that wiring in the 14A005 harness going to the passenger's side airbag pretensioner was smashed behind the parking brake pedal assembly, shorting to ground and turning the airbag light on in a 2006 Grand Marquis I worked on a few weeks ago. Someone drove this car out of the plant, and someone had to have seen the airbag light was on. Oh, my bad, "What airbag light, I thought that was the low fuel light."
It was the assembler's fault that we took delivery of 2004 Grand Marquis with leather seating in front, and a cloth bench in the rear. Someone installed that rear cloth bench, and someone installed the front leather seats. Between here and there, someone had to have seen that the seating in this car didn't match. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault that I've had to adjust the rear liftgate on at least 5 - 2006 Navigators right off the truck so the power liftgate would open and close properly. Some were so far out of adjustment that paint work was required afterwards, where the liftgate rubbed against the body. These gates were so far out of adjustment that one had to lean on the gate with a fair amount of weight to get it to latch shut. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault that several Grand Marquis were shipped likewise, with the rear door strikers so far out of adjustment that paint work was required after proper adjustment of the striker, since the door rubbed against the body. I know someone closed the rear doors in these cars when they were built; Ray Charles could have seen how badly the door fit against the body on these particular cars. Why wasn't anything said?
It was the assembler's fault (at the engine plant) that hundreds of engine oil drain plugs were left loose on 3.0 liter V6s in Fusions, Milans and Zephyrs.
I've got several more instances, if you want to hear 'em. Don't take this as a personal flame at all; a few bad apples screws it up for everyone. But I've seen this "quality" first hand, and if this is quality, I'm scared to ask "What isn't?"