A buddy of mine (Jamie) is a chevy guy BUT he is fixing up a '29 Ford Pickup. He has what he thinks to be a '75 mustang 302 engine that he had cleaned up 5 years ago and everything replaced with good stuff except the cam. The cam is a 0.512 lift, I think, can't remember duration. Since I am the only Ford fanatic that he knows that would have any knowledge on engines, he has asked me to finish the engine off for him. Obviously, he is fitting the bill for the parts. He has stock heads on it and needs an intake for one of 3 Holley carbs that he has in his basement. He is not sure of the sizes but he thinks they are all double pumpers. I told him that he should be really talking to Neal since he has built his pro-street ranger. I have talked to Neal and he is fairly busy and he is not sure if he will have time to help. I would love to get my hands dirty on this project but I don't know a whole lot about working on engines other than the easy stuff. So how hard is it to be working on these motors ??? I mean taking the internals, etc. out and replacing incase we end up changing some of that stuff. I know via Neal that the stock heads suck for air flow, so a new set of heads are going to be a must probably. It has been suggested that we run the Trick Flow Heads that are available from Summit. Anyone have any help on the destruction/creation of motors and any thoughts on parts to use for this motor. Jamie was looking at about 350 HP out of it but I am not sure if we can do that without spending some major cash !! He is looking to stay carburated unless EFI is a very fisable way to go.

Chris (PKRWUD) and others: Any help for your vast racing/mechanic knowledge would be greatly appreciated !!!

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

You called?

I need to know what he has, and what he wants to replace. I need for you to sit down with a pen and paper, and find out what compression pistons he's got, and which carbs he's got. The carbs will each have a list number on the choke tower, facing the front. Something like L-4777-2. Write them all down. I also need to know what kind of ignition system he has, and how he feels about it. What kind of tranny is this going to bolt up to, and what rear gears is he planning on having. These are all important considerations. Get me info, and I'll help you along. This will be alot easier to do via email, though. I'm racing tonight, but will get back to you tomorrow. Email me at: pkrwuds@pacbell.net

Take care,
-Chris

P.S. I also need to know his budget.

 

Chris, I will get all of the essentials and get back to ya on it. It could be a couple of days, we both have off-setting shifts at times. So catching up to him and doing this engine should prove interesting !!

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

One thing Chris forgot to mention.....

You REALLY need to find out how deep his pockets are also! LOL!

A 350 HP 302 build really isn't all that bad. With so many Ford and aftermarket parts at hand the options are almost endless. Keep us filled in as to what you do with it.

 

Talked to Jamie last night and told him what I have found for prices on heads and what you guys have mentioned. "If you look in a engine book for the '75 mustang 302, whatever the book has, he has for the motor". He also said that the block and heads were cleaned and pretty much everything was replaced with OEM stuff except the cam. It is 512 lift and 290 duration. No intake and carburator but he does have three of those (carbs). He is going over to his buddies tonight (where the truck is stored) and will get the numbers off of the block and heads. I hope to be talking to him in a couple of days to get the numbers from him on this stuff along with the carbs. I mentioned before about going to EFI so we could take the superchip and all of the other fun electronic stuff that comes along with EFI into consideration BUT the cost to do that is close to $2500 US. That with the heads of around $1200 US, he would be looking at $5000 CDN with a 1.60 exchange rate. And he isn't too keen on that figure because if he spends that much there then the extra would have to come from somewhere else in the project. And he doesn't really wish to skimp on the project like that.

What I would like to know from you guys is, what are you considering? I know I don't have numbers for the stuff but can you get that kind of HP with just heads, intake and carb providing they are set up properly ???? Remember I am green on this topic !! I know heads generally give around 15-20 HP and I am not sure on the intake. Are we going to have to change the pistons out for dished (best term that I can think of Sorry) or can we leave the inner components alone? With the heads if they don't come with rockers, Jamie said that he would probably go with roller rockers instead. What I am trying to do right now and Jamie agrees is to as much research as possible for costs, etc before we get going. That way, we don't end up getting into something expensive late in the process for the motor and have to put low efficient parts on, just to save money. Oh and I have a tendency of writing books when trying to explain stuff. Chris and signmaster (if you interested), I will start a e-mail conversation once I can get ahold of additional info.

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

Your tendancy to "write books" is why I'm trying to gather as much info from you before I start. "Books" tend to get things confused, and important items get lost in the shuffle.

In short, the 302 requires more work to reach your desired HP than, say, a small block Chevy. The biggest drawback are the heads. Factory 302 heads pretty much suck eggs. The fact that he's willing to use aftermarket heads is a plus. I would recommend Trick Flow Twisted Wedge (TF/TW). It is all a matter of matching components that compliment each other. Ask your friend if he's considered using a blower. They are a good alternative for high power with better drivability. Anyway, send me his numbers (including carb numbers), and we'll go from there.

Take care,
-Chris

 

Izzy Eddy,

Looking at Chris' background I think he would be of more benefit in this situation. Looks to me like he's done a lot of work with carbed engines. The only carbed Ford I've owned was a big block.

I would appreciate if you could keep the thread on the boards just to see if my build thoughts are similar.

The point of the heads is a BIG issue. From what I've seen the TW is very well liked. The only other heads that seem to get consistently good remarks are the AFRs.


A good way to approach this is with a check list. Get all the info on what is current first. Then consider all the other variables that come into the picture such as....
1) tranny behind it
2) weight of truck
3) how streetable?
4) cruiser or hard core use?
5) etc, etc.

Sometimes reality gets warped in these projects and you end up with something that doesn't suit your desires. If you let the Gods of HP persuade you too much, you can easily end up with a car that isn't much fun on cruise night. I've made this mistake myself and in hindsight wish I had sacrificed some HP for a little more civil build.

You also have to balance the vehicle for the performance you want. On the same "oops" I did above I ended up with plenty of motor and no money left for handling/traction. Had I planned better I could have had a car just as quick, but for less money.

Either way, let's keep the thread on the boards so everyone can benefit from it...

 

Chris, I think the blower would probably be out. Neal has looked into the Kenne Bell and the Magnacharger for his 5.4L and they are coming in around $4000-$5500 CDN to buy. And if Jamie did go with the blower, wouldn't we have to update some of the internals for the extra strength ???

Question for both of you guys, I have never torn an engine apart. Worsecase scenerio, I had the throttle bodies off of my two trucks to clean. Everything else is done by a mechanic. That is as far as I have ever gone with tear downs. Is this going to be a hard job ???? You see, I don't want to screw this up, if it was my engine that I was working on then fine but it is not. I have been asked to do something that I didn't think of doing until after going to school to learn how to do it. Chris, I know that you do this almost every weekend with the racing team but what about the first time. Did you do it by yourself and if so was it hard ? Signmaster, what is your experience like on this situation ? This is my biggest doubt in my mind for this project, the lack of my knowledge for tearing an engine apart or putting it back together. Please help !!

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

In my early days, the hardest part of rebuilding an engine for me was all of the measurments that had to be taken. I figured since the parts were new, and a machine shop had done the work, that I could just put everything back together without measurements. WRONG! machine shops make mistakes, and so do the guys that put the 8 new pistons into the box they arrive to you in. You need to verify each part, and measure everywhere. If you could find someone to do it with you, you would really learn alot more. Books are good, but they don't show how you need to prime the oil pump, or answer you when you want to know if it's okay that most of the rockers got oil when priming. I'm not trying to scare you, but you do need to know what you are doing. Don't think for a minute that all those measurements, and torquing the headbolts in three steps, and tapping the bolt holes before reassembly, etc. isn't really important. It's critical. One more thing, even if the bottom end is brand new, you should still check the main and rod bearings, and while you've got them off, pull a couple of pistons and look for this crack:
. 302's are notorious for them.

Of course, if we leave the bottom end alone, it's alot less stress on you.

BTW, a 6 pound blower is a perfect compliment for a bone stock, low mileage 302. No internal mods are required (but wouldn't hurt). I really need to know all of the numbers.

Go buy a couple Ford engine books, and email me anytime you aren't sure about something.

Take care,
-Chris

 

Thanks for the major scare ... my doubt has went from the size of Canada to the size of North American. But hey at least I know what I am up against. I was hoping that Neal would be able to help but he seems pretty busy now a days. The company he works for got a big city contract that will keep them busy for the winter time plus some. I was going to look for some ford engine / 302 books should I become brave at some point in this venture BUT that might not be too soon now. Any recommendations on manuals/books ???

Thanks so far, I hope to have the numbers soon.

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

Do you own any micrometers? have you ever used Plastigauge before? Do you know how to measure a bearing journal for clearance?

A really good 'general' book on engine rebuilding is called "Engine Builder's Handbook, by Tom Monroe". It's published by HP Books, so you shouldn't have trouble finding a copy ($22.95 in Canada). That book does a great job at explaining the technical side of engines, and what and why each step is important. Buy it first, and read it a couple times. Then, believe it or not, the Haynes "Ford Engine Overhaul Manual" is pretty good at narrowing down that knowledge to Ford engines. The Haynes book by itself sucks, and skips too many steps, but if you have read the other book first, you'll be able to figure it out. The last thing you'll need are the numbers, like clearances, torque specs, etc. Neither book has them, but I can help you with those. Once I know the numbers on your engine, and what's going to go into it, I will write up a few pages of pertinant numbers for you, and email them. You can go by a general repair manual, like a Chiltons, which gives general numbers, but the book didn't know what you were going to add to it, and thus isn't very reliable.

You'll be fine if you follow my instructions. I promise.

Take care,
-Chris

 

Oh Man !!! You're doing it again !!!!!

I have heard of mircometers but have never used them. Never heard of Plastiguage and no I haven't measured bearing journals. I told you I was green !!! That is why I am sooooooooooooo concerned about doing this. I can do all the research in the world but when it comes down to the hands on stuff, that was the major question in my mind.

I am not sure what Jamie's experience is for this stuff either but I guess we will soon find out what we can do !!!

If we break it ... will you come and fix it ????

I hope to get the numbers soon !! Thanks Chris.

Have Fun & Keep on Truckin'
Dean

 

Twisted Wedge heads are the way to go, also, do a search on an engine and find Tony Branda, they usually have great prices on 302 parts that you don't have, hi-performance parts anyway. If you decide to go with EFI, use the highest intake that you can get, and run a 90 mm throttle body, put in some drop forged-pistons, Lunati Crank and Cam, 512 is a good size lift, and with a Superchip, you should make right at 400 hp at the flywheel. I would still go with the drop-forged pistons, (Kenny Black?) I think makes sets custom for 302s, get as long of a stroke as you can with the piston rods, this will increase your torque. The higher the intake, the better, the straighter the shot the air gets into the cylinders, the more power it will make. Twisted Wedge heads are really good for EFI or Carb, and if Carb, run double four barrels, at least 650, Holley 800 Dominators if you're serious about spending a lot. I would use MSD or Jacobs Ignition system, and 8.8mm plug wires, and for hi-performance, I would use Splitfire plugs, and of course, syntheitc oil. That should do it, it's really not that hard to get apart and back together, and if you're feeling saucy, throw a Paxton S/C on there.

 

Dean,

Don't worry about the Plastiguage. If you have ever rolled up Play Dough and squished it, and can use a ruler, you can use Plastiguage!

It sounds like you are more than willing to do the proper research. The only thing you are lacking after that part is confidence.

My first build I was lucky. We had an "Old Timer" that took a liking to us and he looked over our shoulders as we did it. The fact that he was there gave us the confidence. When we were done he told us he didn't need to be there.

It's really not that bad if you have time on your side. That way if you reach a grey area, you can stop and make sure you're on the right track before pressing on. I've only dug my hands into the internals of 5 engines I can think of (not counting bikes). I'm sure I would stop and double check in the book or ask someone who's experienced enough to know much more often than someone like Chris, who has obviously gutted more engines. It's really just like your throttle bodies or something you would do yourself. You just have to double check when appropriate, and stop if you're not sure of yourself.

Is the short block in his engine already together? If so, you might avoid all this terror for now....

It's not really hard, it's just the intimidation factor and knowing when to stop yourself rather than potentially doing something wrong. Neal has to eat right? It's surprising what a pizza and some cold beer will do to get someone that has more experience to lend a hand. **Note - Friends don't let friends drink and build - save the cold ones for AFTER!**

 

That is by far the best advice so far.

Take care,
-Chris