You guys are *definitely* the sharpest tools in the drawer.

 

Let me be straight forward with you .... I'm skeptical too!!! BUT !!! Unlike most... I'm going to put this thing to the test. I'm not going to sit back and say nope doesn't work.

I actual have done 100s of hours worth of research on this. I first learned about HHO generators 3 years ago and have been looking into this ever since then. I've talked to tuners, manufactures, and several other people that actual put these chemistry sets in their trucks. I sat back for years (just like you) and said, given what I know about motors, the explosiveness of H2, and just plain common since...I didn't think it would work. But having completed my research AND after riding in a truck that gets 40 MPG's (yes, 40). I said, well **** I'm going to try this. I have NO IDEA if it's actually going to work....I really, really hope it does so we can bury this thing FOR GOOD. I have a Gryphon on my truck and I plan to monitor MPG's, EOT, ECT and overall performance.

In my honest opinion, I think it WILL work...maybe. But I think I'm going to run into the problem (like you've said) of my computer trying to do too much, and therefore cancelling out my possible gains. So, obviously, to see the gains that all these jokers out there are talking about (30-100% MPG increase) I'm going to have to go the extra mile and get the truck tuned so it can deal with the increased H2 and O2 that will be coming into the truck.

Also, I plan to eventually (next month) add 4 more generators which will give me roughly 9.9L of H2 per minute. If you read further down in the original article you quoted to me .... the one from the Senior Editor, he says that his friend Steve (I think) is getting 10-15% increase in MPG on a diesel under towing situation....given that statement I'm going to assume this: #1; His diesel engine is probably larger than my 5.4L Triton...possibly a 7.3 or maybe a 6.0. #2: His truck weighs more #3: He is towing something ...even though he never explained what he was towing ....I would assume the weight of his truck + what he is towing weighs more than my Screw F150. So, with that said, would it be safe to assume that if I add 4 more generators....giving me 10L/min...could I POSSIBLY see a 20-30% increase in MPG ?????? Just based on his article where he says ....NO it won't work....He turns around and says, BUT my friend is getting gains from it ....

This is what the Korean government has done in regards to HHO: http://aquygen.blogspot.com/2008/05/...dates-hho.html

 

Keep reading....
Here are the mods he refers to...
I really hope you're not planning on running your truck anywhere near 20:1.

- NCSU

 

...says the knife-sharpener

Yo NSCU - time fer you to let go ... ya 80-grit prat


The kinder, gentler MGD

 

Here's my take, as a long-time lurker and very occasional poster. I am certainly no expert, but I do happen to be a registered Professional Engineer, so I do I have a little bit of knowledge about how systems work. It's clear (to me anyway) that HHO generators can never increase overall fuel economy because the energy used to make HHO will always be more than the energy that the HHO provides. explanation here. In my opinion, the fuel economy benefits that people see (and I mean no disrespect here) are due either to a change in driving habits after the HHO generators are installed, or a "recalibration" of the engine computer to make the engine run leaner in all conditions.

From a practical standpoint, if the HHO system worked, why is not manufacturer using it? Can you imagine the increase in sales if Ford was able to offer an F-150 that got 25-30 MPG off the showroom floor with only the occasional addition of distilled water? Remember, in only 10 years, the CAFE standards are going up to 35 miles per gallon. If I worked for Ford, I'd sell my grandmother's soul to have a workable answer to increase fuel economy with no drop in performance.

 

^
Hey man, no laws of nature, logic or common sense allowed in here!

Good to see another PE on the forum!

I know, I know.

- NCSU

 

Sorry - I keep confusing the issues with the facts. I gotta work on that.

 

So if you can recalibrate a truck's computer to make it run leaner and therefore have better MPG's ....why wouldn't they do that off the show room floor.

I don't want to get into conspiracy theories ... but if you are a car company producing vehicles and your goal is to make the most $$$$. If it were me at least, and I was running a company worth $100's of billions of $'s ... I would make my MPG's on my up coming vehicles well-known to oil company... I might also be up for a little bribery if those oil company would through me say 100's of million's of dollars to possible keep my MPG's a little lower....increasing gas sales/keeping them steady... but all the while keeping the MPG's high enough to keep the Average Joe happy enough to buy your truck....weird how the same engine keeps coming out more and more fuel efficient each year....but only one or two MPG's ....wait ....technology must have got better in that one year to ONLY give them one or two miles better. So, basically it comes down to....can my company make more money from Avg. Joes buying my truck, the oil companies paying me to keep my MPG's relatively low, or a combination. This isn't some b***s*** theory. I know multiple dealers and manufacturers...they'll usually tell you the same thing...if they'll be honest with you ....its a joke.

Also, BMW makes a car (in Europe where hydrogen is popular) equipped with a unit similar to these ebay HHO generators.... its a 7 series.... also, I work for a car company. MPG's are a joke....literally we get a new vehicle and they are one or two miles better than the year before ... but they are the exact same engine. hm....


Clearly I'm not getting anywhere with you guys.....I would LOVE for any one to get on here....say they've actually put one of these in their truck...and show me proof of an engine blowing up (like you two said it would). Back to what I originally said .... its going in the truck...chances are it'll work, probably bc you guys said it wouldn't.

 

Welcome to my world as the admin on the site. It's like talking to a wall at times... actually, all PE's aren't like this though. I actually hired one last week; he's pretty sharp, can communicate, and has personal skills that aren't '80-grit'.

More of the same around here, Geaux. Best of luck to you on the project.

 

Thanks Rock!

Guess we'll see what happens with my truck !

Either way

 

well.. if all else fails, at least this was an interesting read...

 

Really?????? Do you know anything about how the air/fuel ratio affects an internal combustion engine? Why don't you do a little research on that, see what the problems of running lean are, then come back here and tell us you want to run your truck ultra-lean.

I'll give you just one little thing to think about... A vehicle manufacturer has to be sure their product can operate in a WIDE range of conditions. The same vehicle needs to be able to operate safely in Denver CO (high altitude) , Fairbanks AK (extreme cold) or Death Valley (extreme heat). Be sure to understand that altitude (oxygen levels) and temperatures can critically affect engine operation.

Wow, admitting you're open for bribery. Great morals you got there buddy, and we should believe your undocumented claims about HHO stuff because you're so trustworthy?

So you really believe that if some home inventor makes a car that gets 100 MPG, nobody would buy it because the "Oil Companies" won't let it go to market? You don't think the News would pick up on this during a gas crisis and get the word out? Was 9/11 an inside job?

Dude, get your facts right before you post...

It's not an HHO setup, the BMW runs off LIQUID HYDROGEN, a totally different setup. Nobody here who knows anything will deny that you can build a vehicle to run off liquid hydrogen, but it's even more different from an HHO generator than a gas engine is from a diesel.

Prove us wrong. I told you before the engine won't explode like you're thinking, but lean conditions raise engine temps which can destroy parts not designed to operate in those increased temp ranges.

You didn't answer any of my questions about running ultra-lean or how you're only creating a small fraction of H2. Even if you got 9.9L/min, it'd still take over 21 hours to produce enough H2 to equal the BTUs in 1 gallon of gas. We've given you many reasons why it won't work, you haven't given us any reasons why it will. Remember, you still need to be able to keep the engine in safe operating conditions.

Wow Brad, you must really not care at all about members here if you're going encouraging this guy to attempt this project like he's planning to. You're a smart guy, surely you aren't drinking the kool-aid too. Regardless of how "abrasive" we are, we're actually trying to help this guy. If we didn't want to help, we wouldn't have bothered posting facts or research, we'd just call this guy stupid and move on. I sure hope the PE you hired would tell you when you're about to do something stupid, illegal or dangerous. I'm sure you don't want to surround yourself with a bunch of yes-men, do you?

[rant on]When I'm supervising a dive team you'd better believe that the safety of my divers is my primary concern. I don't give two squats if the job gets done, if conditions are such that it makes working unnecessarily dangerous, I cancel the dive. I'm sure you've worked on projects where the higher-ups want something done that's just not possible. If they don't listen to reason or facts and force me to pull out my 20-grit side to get them to understand and accept my decision, I will, and I will not apologize for it. Some people just don't respond to logic or common sense. [/rant off]

Oh well, if you don't care whether things are correct or incorrect, fact or fiction, truth or lies, then carry on.

- NCSU

 

They dont set the engines to run lean in trucks because it is bad for the engine. A leaner engine runs hotter, and in a truck (which are designed to be put to the test hauling and towing) this is not a good combination.

Also, the reason you see different MPG's in the same engine is a result of changes to the PCM which result in better MPG's.

 

Like I said it has already been tried and tested and documented on this very site. No one is denying that Hydrogen would not work to help your mileage. What doesn't work however is the current HHO generators cannot produce enough Hydrogen to replace the energy used to create it (meaning to spin your alternator and provide the electricity to produce the Hydrogen in the first place). That is the current hurdle. Once more energy efficient reactors are invented it would be a no-brainer to implement it in your system but for now there is no such thing as a free lunch. Good luck on your quest though. It is unlikely that you will blow anything up but be safe anyway.