Interesting points unclemole.


Rich,

Now I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert on dyno results but the fact that peak power is so low in the rpm range leads me to think you're engine is choked, it can't get everything out that you're pushing down it's neck.

This would explain why adding more nitrous produces worse results. I'd be very interested to see how a Zex kit would work on your engine as it currently stands.

Regards

Trev

 

Trev,

If you keep calling Rob, Rich, in these posts, he will probably start thinking his name is Rich. He doesn't have that many brain cells left these days you know....

 

Deleted

 

I do still have the second Maximiser. I sent the original unit back to you - if I recall correctly you said it was something with the chip now that I think about it. It wouldn't fire the nitrous solenoid correctly if you recall. The one I have now works but has to "reset" over a few minutes before it will fire. Not a huge issue as I wouldn't be getting back into the nitrous the second time around unless I was hot lapping. I haven't sent this last one back but I will ASAP.

I don't have pics but the injector is in the upper plenum - tapped and at a slight angle. I'll get some pics.

 

Let me make sure EVERYONE is clear on this
This post started out as me saying "Hey all we found out how much Boost is TOO MUCH" This was not, nor is a I dont like my RT kit post. I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS POST ON THAT PATH.
AMOF I was the one who said this in thios post


It's after this when people started throwing stones AT ME the post took a attack Denny twist, AND THAT SUCKS @(*%(@&$%(@&$@$

I was the USA test vehicle for RT, I have become friends with D and Trev, I am treated like family, the customer service is 2nd to none, and I have been TOTALLY HAPPY for 2 seasons with the RT System AND STILL AM .

Even with the rumors of a few bad results out there, I NEVER PAID IT NO MIND. WHY ? cause mine were great, (results) and I was totally happy, as my quote above showed even at the beginning of this post.

I was there the day Mark's was Dyno'd, I saw those results, I've talked to Sal about his other RT dyno's (out of town) with not so great results, then others popped in with simular results, then Sal pumped it up to 150 HP the following day and we hit a dead end. After a while one saw a common factor, higher HP L's using the RT kit were having prob's putting it down.
THATS WHAT THIS POST IS ABOUT

If my heads cant flow no more, if my springs cant take no more, if my cams cant cam no more, hehehehe, then as I've repeated many times, I AM HAPPY WITH WHAT I HAVE, I truly am, ya I'd like to officially hit 600/700 but I already have the 700 in the bag as is, so big deal I ONLY HAVE 550 RWHP.

Dont let this post discourage ANYONE, this System KICKS ***
Denny and Trev are great to deal with, maybe my issue is simply I am at my limits of the heads and cams, I SAID MAYBE. or maybe the 3an n20 line cant flow enough, or or or. But what I have is enough to have some awesome fun, and as long as D and Trev are willing to be open and listen and learn, I think we will ALL gain in the end.

D, could the 3an line play a Part ???

 

Correct and it's still a mystery. Highpower was going to have the actual programming company look at the unit as they have never seen anything like it.

I'll be awaiting your Maximiser and will get it sorted ASAP. If it's no trouble please send the nitrous solenoid also so I can check adjustments, filter, etc. to make sure all is well.

 

Rob,
Here are some quick flow numbers that are very recent:
5mm nylon line(16ft)= 140bhp
3AN braided with 4AN end fittings(16ft) = 188bhp
4AN line with 4AN end fittings(16ft) = 300+bhp

What flow percentages drop off from the given numbers depends on how clean and straight forward the rest of the install is.

 

Hey guys I may have cracked the problem.

Now I may be jumping in at the deep end and end up wishing I'd kept my big mouth shut for a while longer but I've never been any good at that. :o

Anyway whilst reading Sals post I read the section where he reported that it took one of his customers longer than I would expect to purge the gaseous nitrous through the nylon pipe.

I also read that he said too many people had the pipes blow off.

So I've put 2 and 2 together and I think I've got 4

Imagine you were concerned about the pipes blowing off - which they wouldn't if tightened to the right amount (although it can sometimes take a bit of experience to get it right for some people).
Plus you were used to cranking up braided pipe fittings with a big spanner.
You'd probably tighten the nuts up good and tight to make sure the pipe didn't come off again. Unfortunately doing the nuts up too tight would crush the nylon pipe and restrict the flow of nitrous through the system.

This would explain a few of the problems;
1) It would explain the bog that one guy reported
2) It would explain the long bleed time and why Sal would think he needs a purge (when he shouldn't)
3) It would explain the pathetic power figures on the dyno tests

It may also explain Rob's problem (sorry for geting the names screwed up), but as his O2 reading looked constant (although I couldn't tell at what value they were), it may not be the full story. However if the pipe is necked and it can only deliver 75 bhp of nitrous then it won't make anymore power no matter what is done with the jets or the mix.

All you need to do to check and to cure the problem is as follows;
1) Get an 80 thou drill or better still jet reamer.
2) Remove the pipe from both the solenoid and the bottle.
3) Open the pipe up with the drill / reamer where it passes through the olive.
Now this is NOT the best way to deal with it but it's probably the safest way until you get confident with the use of our pipe fittings. The best way is;
4) Remove the pipe and cut off both ends.
5) Fit new olives and tighten the nuts ONLY till it goes too tight to turn the appropriate spanner with 1 finger (as a guide).
6) Remove the fittings.
7) Get hold of the pipe and nut then try to pull the nut off.
8) Assuming it can't be pulled off check the pipes internal diameter.
9) Open out the pipe if required
10) Refit the pipe apply just enough pressure to seal it and prevent leaks
11) DO NOT SWING ON THE SPANNER!!!!!!

Let's hope I've got it right as this would be a simple fix and set everyone back on track.

Regards

Trev The WIZARD of NOS

8

 

Hum...

Rich

 

with all due respect trev, (and you desirve alot) i think the problem was found already.

heater and purge are needed

 

You are using your existing bottle which I assume has a heater as you would use on the NX kit?

Give me a call if interested in much better performance as I can sort you out and it wont be because of a purge being the problem.

 

Sorry but NOT the answer to all. First off with the Nylon lines we never needed one, and quite frankly the 3an braided line is so close in size I truly dont see me needing one either, but I will put one on because Denny recommends it, BUT DEF NOT MY ISSUE.

And I use a heater, it turns off and on automatically, and it maintains 900 psi min, again DEF NOT MY PROB.

And since my dyno sheet shown is the 2nd or third Dyno run, no purge was needed, "nor would have it improved the numbers". But I do agree 1 million percent that EVERYONE needs a heater, and if you have 4an lines you def need a purge, maybe even 3an.

No I think I already know what "I'll try", I just need to figure out how to do it,
I know I'm on my own to figure it out but I want to adt the Solenoids to a std 3an braided line and nozzle.

5mm nylon line(16ft)= 140bhp
3AN braided with 4AN end fittings(16ft) = 188bhp
4AN line with 4AN end fittings(16ft) = 300+bhp

If 3an braided line only goes to 188hp I should consider switching to 4an. And second if 5mm only flows 140hp, D and or Trev can you please explain to me how it enters the Solenoid, goes through 2 jets with opening the size of needle points, and then travels through a what 3mm nozzle line ???
HOW IS THAT POSSIBALY GOING TO GIVE ME 150 HP AT THE NOZZLE ???

One thing is now VERY CLEAR, I was looking back at my old 501/615 Rt Dyno, and that was done on the stock block w/4lb + 75 Shot, quite amazing results imo, and as said it equaled 11's each and every time it saw the 1320. Five times better than my previous kit, and it only had a 10.2 MAX AF (most of it was in the 9's). Whats now very clear to me is that boost and hp CLEARLY hurts the performance of this system, and as you get up you clearly need to pull fuel and run it leaner if you want to claim even decent power out of it, not my first choice for a n20 tune, (running a high 11 AF). But I still believe if I increase the flow and then bring that flow and pressure all the way "TO THE NOZZLE" I will pick up more power. I hope and plan on proving that ?

 

3AN lines are not close to the same size as the 5mm. You are just looking at the end fittings. Remember for braided the end fittings have a sleeve that go inside the pipe, so the pipe has to be much bigger which it is and needs a purge. The nylon has external fittings so the internal flow path is always the same size between lines and fittings.

You have never been on your own when it comes to me and the products we sell. If you want to use a different injector and get it out of your system to do so then I have adapters to do this. I know your numbers won't change but what do I know.

Numbers are based off how much a system can flow and that's why we say they are theoretical and I explained this earlier. 50hp being sprayed into 3 completely different engine set-ups will make 3 different results.

Again I never said OUR system does not work on high boost and I still don't know how you think this either? I can't find anyway to think why this would make any sense. Every truck including yours with lower than optimal power has different issues. We all know your truck is maxed on what the heads can flow. Others have a restrictive TB plate that is being corrected. Others may have line install issues as Trev explained. It has nothing to do with the kits not working with high boost as many 20+psi turbo guys don't have problems.

 

Turbo guys dont have our intercooler setup like ours. Make us a direct port system and then youll see some numbers!!!

 

True and the intercooler is a major restriction which is why we never said single point was a great set-up for the Lightning. Its just the easiest and cheapest for most guys that want some extra power. Obviously there is a ceiling and we do have a Lighnting going direct port this winter to see what improvements there are over single point.

I am just as anxious and curious as all the L owners as to what's what. The problem is as anyone in this market knows is time and resources. Lately a lot of the tuners and high end guys are concentrating on turbos, 4v heads, etc. Nobody has showed much if any interest in a massive dose direct port L to run some times. I am not a Lightning tuner as most of you know and have my own projects to work on. At the same time I have made some good contacts and hopefully this off-season will create some data that we all need.

Who knows, maybe you'll see a new record holder with a nitrous powered L when the smoke clears. Anything is possible.