Islamic mosque at ground zero????!!
OG you continue to crack me up with your "reasoning"!
Think about it......just because someone wears a Kobe Bryant jersey it doesn't make them a basketball player, right?
Just because someone identifies themself as a christian it doesn't mean they are god himself.
Problem seems to be that we as people seem to have a need to group together, what ever group that happens to be-christian/muslem/Ford/Chevy/black/brown/white...... the list goes on and on.
Marten Luther King had it right when he said "A man should be judged by the content of his character." It's the "CHARACTERS" in all these groups that have been cited in ALL the arguements so far. It's the "CHARACTERS" that give any group a bad rap.
The rub for most Americans is that the Muslims seem to breed and idolize their "CHARACTERS" both passively and actively. In alot of people's eyes there seems to be no limit to what we have to accept in the name of tolorance. Almost like our laws and our society standards don't apply to their "CHARACTERS", like the scales are loaded in their favor.
I don't think that any body has a problem with a Muslim group that wants to get with the program and live peacefully in our country-it just doesn't seem like that is what their goal is. Case in point is the audacity to even consider building the mosque at ground zero!
Have a nice day!
Think about it......just because someone wears a Kobe Bryant jersey it doesn't make them a basketball player, right?
Just because someone identifies themself as a christian it doesn't mean they are god himself.
Problem seems to be that we as people seem to have a need to group together, what ever group that happens to be-christian/muslem/Ford/Chevy/black/brown/white...... the list goes on and on.
Marten Luther King had it right when he said "A man should be judged by the content of his character." It's the "CHARACTERS" in all these groups that have been cited in ALL the arguements so far. It's the "CHARACTERS" that give any group a bad rap.
The rub for most Americans is that the Muslims seem to breed and idolize their "CHARACTERS" both passively and actively. In alot of people's eyes there seems to be no limit to what we have to accept in the name of tolorance. Almost like our laws and our society standards don't apply to their "CHARACTERS", like the scales are loaded in their favor.
I don't think that any body has a problem with a Muslim group that wants to get with the program and live peacefully in our country-it just doesn't seem like that is what their goal is. Case in point is the audacity to even consider building the mosque at ground zero!
Have a nice day!
The statement you made, however, is a general assumption that is not truely accurate. I'm trying to say you sounded like a jerk with your belief that muslims shouldn't live in America (and yes, you did say that but I dont feel the need to quote it AGAIN). I'm not attacking your beliefs in god, that is not what prompted me to start typing any kind of response. It was your generalization that you know everything about everyone based on a few you've met and a combination with what you see on the news. We (the industrialized nations) have been at war with that region of the world (and many like it) for a long time. They see it as a continuation of a religious war brought on long before the crusades while we are trying to wage war on terrorist organizations that use religion as means of recruitment and justification. Have you ever noticed that the "leaders" are not leading their "followers" into ***** of fire nearly as quickly as they instruct their followers to commit those brutal actions? Simple, an organization needs leadership not heros and saints(by their reasoning, not yours). But those leaders sure do preach how one can become a hero by slaughtering the enemy infidels. This goes back to the already stateted point of "it comes down to who translates the book." Those individuals are where your problem lies. Those who translate for the idea of destruction are a significantly smaller group that take advantage of other muslim's willingness to be open minded and turns it into a bitter angery machine bent on dealing as much damage as possible to those who are selected as targets. They are the ones that need to be boxed up and sent back, not the peaceful open minded muslims. The last characterization may not fit the person you met at Walmart but the one before it does not characterize all muslims.
Would these be a fair assesments? I met a guy from Mississippi who wore a shoe on his head, therefore EVERYONE in Mississippi wears a shoe on their head. I talked to a guy from Iowa who had a funny accent, therefore they ALL have funny accents. I have met and seen many people from California who are homosexual, therefore anyone from California is a homosexual.
quote I have met and seen many people from California who are homosexual, therefore anyone from California is a homosexual. quote
Wow finally a true statement........... ;-)
Wow finally a true statement........... ;-)
If I have my head in the sand then you have yours up somewhere else. I am very aware at how dangerous radicals of ANY religion are. Should I go through the long list of domestic terrorists who were not muslim? Christians can't be placed on a pedestal of perfection as you obviously believe, the Christian faith also has its set of bloody blemishes. The top ones that come to mind are the the crusades, Christian military campaigns that were targeting muslims...except a few like the fourth. I think that one raided Constantinople, the second most powerful and prosperous Christian city in Europe, second only to Rome. We might as well add Hitler to the list because, although debatable, he considered the Christian god his Lord and was a follower of the Bible.
The statement you made, however, is a general assumption that is not truely accurate. I'm trying to say you sounded like a jerk with your belief that muslims shouldn't live in America (and yes, you did say that but I dont feel the need to quote it AGAIN). I'm not attacking your beliefs in god, that is not what prompted me to start typing any kind of response. It was your generalization that you know everything about everyone based on a few you've met and a combination with what you see on the news. We (the industrialized nations) have been at war with that region of the world (and many like it) for a long time. They see it as a continuation of a religious war brought on long before the crusades while we are trying to wage war on terrorist organizations that use religion as means of recruitment and justification. Have you ever noticed that the "leaders" are not leading their "followers" into ***** of fire nearly as quickly as they instruct their followers to commit those brutal actions? Simple, an organization needs leadership not heros and saints(by their reasoning, not yours). But those leaders sure do preach how one can become a hero by slaughtering the enemy infidels. This goes back to the already stateted point of "it comes down to who translates the book." Those individuals are where your problem lies. Those who translate for the idea of destruction are a significantly smaller group that take advantage of other muslim's willingness to be open minded and turns it into a bitter angery machine bent on dealing as much damage as possible to those who are selected as targets. They are the ones that need to be boxed up and sent back, not the peaceful open minded muslims. The last characterization may not fit the person you met at Walmart but the one before it does not characterize all muslims.
Would these be a fair assesments? I met a guy from Mississippi who wore a shoe on his head, therefore EVERYONE in Mississippi wears a shoe on their head. I talked to a guy from Iowa who had a funny accent, therefore they ALL have funny accents. I have met and seen many people from California who are homosexual, therefore anyone from California is a homosexual.
The statement you made, however, is a general assumption that is not truely accurate. I'm trying to say you sounded like a jerk with your belief that muslims shouldn't live in America (and yes, you did say that but I dont feel the need to quote it AGAIN). I'm not attacking your beliefs in god, that is not what prompted me to start typing any kind of response. It was your generalization that you know everything about everyone based on a few you've met and a combination with what you see on the news. We (the industrialized nations) have been at war with that region of the world (and many like it) for a long time. They see it as a continuation of a religious war brought on long before the crusades while we are trying to wage war on terrorist organizations that use religion as means of recruitment and justification. Have you ever noticed that the "leaders" are not leading their "followers" into ***** of fire nearly as quickly as they instruct their followers to commit those brutal actions? Simple, an organization needs leadership not heros and saints(by their reasoning, not yours). But those leaders sure do preach how one can become a hero by slaughtering the enemy infidels. This goes back to the already stateted point of "it comes down to who translates the book." Those individuals are where your problem lies. Those who translate for the idea of destruction are a significantly smaller group that take advantage of other muslim's willingness to be open minded and turns it into a bitter angery machine bent on dealing as much damage as possible to those who are selected as targets. They are the ones that need to be boxed up and sent back, not the peaceful open minded muslims. The last characterization may not fit the person you met at Walmart but the one before it does not characterize all muslims.
Would these be a fair assesments? I met a guy from Mississippi who wore a shoe on his head, therefore EVERYONE in Mississippi wears a shoe on their head. I talked to a guy from Iowa who had a funny accent, therefore they ALL have funny accents. I have met and seen many people from California who are homosexual, therefore anyone from California is a homosexual.
Wow, really? Green98's issue isn't that they're Muslim nor how the Koran is interpreted... It's that the most common and popular interpretation of it tells them to kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do. It's ok to have different beliefs, be different and act different... as long as those actions don't impede on the rights of others... By having their leaders preach to kill infidel's, they make themselves a part of that group by not differentiating themselves from that group.
Back to religion, but only for an example... In the early 1500's, Protestism was started by Martin Luther and drew a small following... They were persecuted to no end by the Catholic Church... But they persevered, and today almost rival the Catholic Church in membership...
But why are there no Muslim sects that said, "Hey, Mohommad never wanted us to kill infidels. We just won't place ourselves among them." Or something to that effect... To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen or heard of any group of Muslims that seriously disagree with what the extremists are doing... Sure, there a scattered few that TV news cameras find to make us think they're not all bad, but if there were groups really against what the Sunni's and Shiites have made Muslim into, wouldn't we know?
Green98,
I agree with you to an extent... Who the hell wants their Muslim neighbor, who may be nice and let you use his weed wacker, secretly wanting you dead, and maybe searching for the oppurtunity...
And before all you come out and say that's a racist, biggoted, or generalized statement, think about this...
If every white man hit a dog in the face when they walked by, but every black man gave the same dog a treat, what's the dog gonna do when whitey comes? Cower in fear, of course... When the brother comes, he's gonna wag his tail in delight...Point is, it's a learned response. We learn from what we see... If we seen a bunch of midgets with green eyes and pointy hats crash the planes, and suicide bomb our soldiers and plant ied's where children play, that would be the one's we're afraid of... Sadly, that's no the case...
BTW, hope I didn't offend anyone with the black/white thing, that was just the easiest example I could think of to explain my thoughts.
Terrorizer, I'm glad you found my criticism of you so funny. But~ I could have phrased it differently and used strong language, but kept the intent of it in tact, and angered you very much. It's odd to me, how you can say anything you want about some one, as long as you say it nicely. What I said was very insulting, but it takes strong language to get a point across
Very interesting.

Very interesting.
Terrorizer, I'm glad you found my criticism of you so funny. But~ I could have phrased it differently and used strong language, but kept the intent of it in tact, and angered you very much. It's odd to me, how you can say anything you want about some one, as long as you say it nicely. What I said was very insulting, but it takes strong language to get a point across
Very interesting.

Very interesting.

What you said may well be considered insulting but not to worry man, I've come across decomposed bodies that are less offensive than you are. So keep on tossing you smart *** comments that's all they're good for.
Anybody want to try reading about the Sunni and Shia split? I though everyone knew the difference and that Muslims prefer to consider themselves all "muslims" rather than Sunni and Shia/Shi'ite muslims.
Sorry for the length but even this cuts a BUNCH of stuff out.
Would you do that if you KNEW you, your family and your friends would be tortured, most likely to death, for saying something like that? I have talked to people who came to this country to escape the tyranny and how they described their life there would be worse than any hell. They were not really allowed to read unless it was absolutely necissary, they were lucky to really own anything of value and every day could be their last...but since the cameras focus on the destructive terrorists, anyone that is similar in any way must also be a terrorist.
Sorry for the length but even this cuts a BUNCH of stuff out.
What is Islam?:
The name of the religion is Islam, which comes from an Arabic root word meaning "peace" and "submission." Islam teaches that one can only find peace in one's life by submitting to Almighty God (Allah) in heart, soul and deed. The same Arabic root word gives us "Salaam alaykum," ("Peace be with you"), the universal Muslim greeting.
At heart, Sunnis and Shiites are like Catholics and Protestants in the commonality of some fundamental beliefs. But their differences, especially in nations where the Sunni-Shiite split is exacerbated by each other's proximity (as in Iraq and Lebanon), run so deep that intolerance and violence shadow the two groups, making coexistence difficult.
Islam's Origins
In 610 A.D., Muhammad ibn Abdallah was a successful 40-year-old Arab businessman and tradesman. Every year he retired to a cave near Mecca, in present-day Saudi Arabia, to pray and fast. Beginning that year on his cave retreats, he had overpowering revelation of the word of God, what would later come to be known as the Quran (which means recitation). By 610, Muhammad was preaching the Quran and directing his earliest followers to build a community, or ummah, where the practical and the compassionate (rather than the theological) was to predominate.
The year 622 marks the founding of Islam as a religion: It was the year of the hijrah, or migration, by Muhammad and his followers. They founded the first truly Islamic ummah in Medina.
By the time of Muhammad's death in 632, Islam had conquered the Arabian peninsula roughly up to what today would be Saudi Arabia's borders with Jordan and Iraq. Within a century, Islam would spread to western India, the Caucasus, Turkey, North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. Its furthest advance was to the heart of present-day France, where the armies of Charles Martel stopped the conquerors in 732 in the Battles of Tours and Poitiers.
The Prophet Muhammad's Succession
At Muhammad's death in 632, Abu Bakr, a close companion of the Prophet, became his successor, or caliph. Most Muslims agreed that the most able and pious of the Prophet's followers should be his caliphs. Their followers would come to be known as the orthodox branch of Islam, or Sunnis.
A few Muslims disagreed, arguing for a line of succession based on bloodlines. To those dissenters, the succession should have immediately gone to Ali, the fourth caliph -- who took the helm after some of his followers assassinated Caliph Uthman, his predecessor. Followers of Ali would eventually form Shiite Islam.
What Sunnis and Shiites Believe
The Quran, the Prophet's hadith, or sayings, and the sunna, or customs, are central to the belief system of both Sunnis and Shiites. So are the five pillars of Islam: The recitation of the creed ("There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his Prophet"); the salat, or the recitation of prayers five times a day; zakat, or the obligatory giving of alms to the poor according to one's means; fasting from sunup to sunset during the month of Ramadan; and the hajj, or pilgrimage, to Mecca at least once in a Muslim's lifetime, means permitting. The Quran does call for "jihad" as a military struggle on behalf of Islam. But the Quran also refers to jihad as an internal, individual, spiritual struggle toward self-improvement, moral cleansing and intellectual effort. It is said that Prophet Muhammad considered the armed-struggle version of holy war "the little jihad," but considered the spiritual, individual version of holy war--the war within oneself--as "the great jihad."
Including the "jihad" as one of the five pillars of Islam is a common Western misunderstanding. Jihad is not among the five basic pillars of Islam. Still, "jihad" is considered to be every Muslim's duty--be it the struggle to improve society, preventing the exploitation of the poor or vulnerable, or improving oneself before the Day of Judgment.
Sunnis and Shiites also believe in Islamic law. But its application varies.
Several militant or political Islamic organizations have adopted the term in their monikers. These include Egypt's Jamaat al-Jihad community, established in the late 1970s by militant Sunnis and responsible for the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981; Islamic Jihad, an offshoot of Hezbollah in Lebanon and used since 1982 in covert military activities; and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which has conducted suicide attacks on Israeli targets. All three groups are on the U.S. State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.
Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context. In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," and the terms are given, inaccurately, exclusively military connotations.
Where Sunnis and Shiites Differ
Sunnis accept that the first four Caliphs, including Ali, were the rightful followers of Muhammad. However--rather like Protestantism in Christianity--they don't grant the kind of divinely inspired status to their clerics that Shiites do with their imams. Shiites believe imams are descendants of the Prophet.
Islam has no codified laws per se. It has various schools of law. While Sunni doctrine is more rigidly aligned in accordance with those various schools, its hierarchical structure is looser and often falls under state, rather than clerical, control. The opposite is true in Shiitism: The doctrine is somewhat more open to interpretation but the clerical hierarchy is more defined and, as in Iran, the ultimate authority is the imam, not the state.
Both Sunnis and Shiites break down into various sects that range from puritanical (as with Sunni Wahhabism, prevalent in Saudi Arabia) to somewhat mysterious (as with the Druze of Lebanon, Syria and Israel, who form an offshoot of Shiitism).
The name of the religion is Islam, which comes from an Arabic root word meaning "peace" and "submission." Islam teaches that one can only find peace in one's life by submitting to Almighty God (Allah) in heart, soul and deed. The same Arabic root word gives us "Salaam alaykum," ("Peace be with you"), the universal Muslim greeting.
At heart, Sunnis and Shiites are like Catholics and Protestants in the commonality of some fundamental beliefs. But their differences, especially in nations where the Sunni-Shiite split is exacerbated by each other's proximity (as in Iraq and Lebanon), run so deep that intolerance and violence shadow the two groups, making coexistence difficult.
Islam's Origins
In 610 A.D., Muhammad ibn Abdallah was a successful 40-year-old Arab businessman and tradesman. Every year he retired to a cave near Mecca, in present-day Saudi Arabia, to pray and fast. Beginning that year on his cave retreats, he had overpowering revelation of the word of God, what would later come to be known as the Quran (which means recitation). By 610, Muhammad was preaching the Quran and directing his earliest followers to build a community, or ummah, where the practical and the compassionate (rather than the theological) was to predominate.
The year 622 marks the founding of Islam as a religion: It was the year of the hijrah, or migration, by Muhammad and his followers. They founded the first truly Islamic ummah in Medina.
By the time of Muhammad's death in 632, Islam had conquered the Arabian peninsula roughly up to what today would be Saudi Arabia's borders with Jordan and Iraq. Within a century, Islam would spread to western India, the Caucasus, Turkey, North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. Its furthest advance was to the heart of present-day France, where the armies of Charles Martel stopped the conquerors in 732 in the Battles of Tours and Poitiers.
The Prophet Muhammad's Succession
At Muhammad's death in 632, Abu Bakr, a close companion of the Prophet, became his successor, or caliph. Most Muslims agreed that the most able and pious of the Prophet's followers should be his caliphs. Their followers would come to be known as the orthodox branch of Islam, or Sunnis.
A few Muslims disagreed, arguing for a line of succession based on bloodlines. To those dissenters, the succession should have immediately gone to Ali, the fourth caliph -- who took the helm after some of his followers assassinated Caliph Uthman, his predecessor. Followers of Ali would eventually form Shiite Islam.
What Sunnis and Shiites Believe
The Quran, the Prophet's hadith, or sayings, and the sunna, or customs, are central to the belief system of both Sunnis and Shiites. So are the five pillars of Islam: The recitation of the creed ("There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his Prophet"); the salat, or the recitation of prayers five times a day; zakat, or the obligatory giving of alms to the poor according to one's means; fasting from sunup to sunset during the month of Ramadan; and the hajj, or pilgrimage, to Mecca at least once in a Muslim's lifetime, means permitting. The Quran does call for "jihad" as a military struggle on behalf of Islam. But the Quran also refers to jihad as an internal, individual, spiritual struggle toward self-improvement, moral cleansing and intellectual effort. It is said that Prophet Muhammad considered the armed-struggle version of holy war "the little jihad," but considered the spiritual, individual version of holy war--the war within oneself--as "the great jihad."
Including the "jihad" as one of the five pillars of Islam is a common Western misunderstanding. Jihad is not among the five basic pillars of Islam. Still, "jihad" is considered to be every Muslim's duty--be it the struggle to improve society, preventing the exploitation of the poor or vulnerable, or improving oneself before the Day of Judgment.
Sunnis and Shiites also believe in Islamic law. But its application varies.
Several militant or political Islamic organizations have adopted the term in their monikers. These include Egypt's Jamaat al-Jihad community, established in the late 1970s by militant Sunnis and responsible for the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981; Islamic Jihad, an offshoot of Hezbollah in Lebanon and used since 1982 in covert military activities; and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which has conducted suicide attacks on Israeli targets. All three groups are on the U.S. State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.
Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context. In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," and the terms are given, inaccurately, exclusively military connotations.
Where Sunnis and Shiites Differ
Sunnis accept that the first four Caliphs, including Ali, were the rightful followers of Muhammad. However--rather like Protestantism in Christianity--they don't grant the kind of divinely inspired status to their clerics that Shiites do with their imams. Shiites believe imams are descendants of the Prophet.
Islam has no codified laws per se. It has various schools of law. While Sunni doctrine is more rigidly aligned in accordance with those various schools, its hierarchical structure is looser and often falls under state, rather than clerical, control. The opposite is true in Shiitism: The doctrine is somewhat more open to interpretation but the clerical hierarchy is more defined and, as in Iran, the ultimate authority is the imam, not the state.
Both Sunnis and Shiites break down into various sects that range from puritanical (as with Sunni Wahhabism, prevalent in Saudi Arabia) to somewhat mysterious (as with the Druze of Lebanon, Syria and Israel, who form an offshoot of Shiitism).
But why are there no Muslim sects that said, "Hey, Mohommad never wanted us to kill infidels. We just won't place ourselves among them." Or something to that effect... To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen or heard of any group of Muslims that seriously disagree with what the extremists are doing... Sure, there a scattered few that TV news cameras find to make us think they're not all bad, but if there were groups really against what the Sunni's and Shiites have made Muslim into, wouldn't we know?
Last edited by Longshot270; Jul 27, 2010 at 11:08 PM.
Would you do that if you KNEW you, your family and your friends would be tortured, most likely to death, for saying something like that? I have talked to people who came to this country to escape the tyranny and how they described their life there would be worse than any hell. They were not really allowed to read unless it was absolutely necissary, they were lucky to really own anything of value and every day could be their last...but since the cameras focus on the destructive terrorists, anyone that is similar in any way must also be a terrorist.
Because the protestants were better able to escape by just packing up and leaving. Guess where a bunch of them escaped to besides directly north? Hint: What group of colonies was just gaining momentum in the 1500s when the split occurred? Answer: The colonies of America!
But now is different because they are apparently not allowed here because they are muslim.
But now is different because they are apparently not allowed here because they are muslim.
Because the protestants were better able to escape by just packing up and leaving. Guess where a bunch of them escaped to besides directly north? Hint: What group of colonies was just gaining momentum in the 1500s when the split occurred? Answer: The colonies of America!
But now is different because they are apparently not allowed here because they are muslim.
But now is different because they are apparently not allowed here because they are muslim.
If you for one minute think that they couldn't come here seeking asylum and safety, you're dead wrong... That's exactly what founded this country, as you yourself pointed out. Name a group or orginization that stands for peaceful Muslims here in the States... And I'm willing to bet our govn't would help them and their families get here... After all, we pretty much founded the country of Israel...
Hey 98, thanks for your service man!
I have to -slightly- disagree with part of your comment. I have known several muslims and yes they were extremely nice people, but we must separate 'niceness' from those who are our enemy. If they are true muslims, they believe in the extermination of all Christians. Therefore, in my opinion, every single stinking muslim in our country and get the heck out for all I care.
I had a bitter argument about 2 months ago in WalMart with a muslim guy and his wife, both went through graduate school with me. He constantly posts anti-American, anti-Isreal / pro-Iran, pro-muslim stuff on his facebook status weekly. He's living in the USA, got an undergradute and graduate degrees from American Universities, working in the private sector corporate world, and he openly slams the US for being intollerant to muslim ideals and for wanting to sanction Iran, and runs our country down every chance he gets. In person, he is one of the most open and friendly people I've ever met, hands down. Very gracious personality.
In the most polite way that I could without killing this guy, I told him and his wife that they can get the he// out of my country, and that I was a God fearing Christian, and that he and every single other muslim, radical or not, were worshiping a false God and that I wished that every single one of them would leave my country.
I have no tollerance for any muslim. If they're a true muslim, they believe in the extermination of the 'white' man, and they will disguise it in the nicest, most open and friendly way possible. DONT be fooled.
I have to -slightly- disagree with part of your comment. I have known several muslims and yes they were extremely nice people, but we must separate 'niceness' from those who are our enemy. If they are true muslims, they believe in the extermination of all Christians. Therefore, in my opinion, every single stinking muslim in our country and get the heck out for all I care.
I had a bitter argument about 2 months ago in WalMart with a muslim guy and his wife, both went through graduate school with me. He constantly posts anti-American, anti-Isreal / pro-Iran, pro-muslim stuff on his facebook status weekly. He's living in the USA, got an undergradute and graduate degrees from American Universities, working in the private sector corporate world, and he openly slams the US for being intollerant to muslim ideals and for wanting to sanction Iran, and runs our country down every chance he gets. In person, he is one of the most open and friendly people I've ever met, hands down. Very gracious personality.
In the most polite way that I could without killing this guy, I told him and his wife that they can get the he// out of my country, and that I was a God fearing Christian, and that he and every single other muslim, radical or not, were worshiping a false God and that I wished that every single one of them would leave my country.
I have no tollerance for any muslim. If they're a true muslim, they believe in the extermination of the 'white' man, and they will disguise it in the nicest, most open and friendly way possible. DONT be fooled.
Alright, now we're getting on the same wavelength! They CAN come here legally. The government DOES help them come here. You have no idea how many have been saved by these actions. The problem is the society. You have people like green who believe every person who claims they are Islamic is a terrorist and that anyone who claims they are islamic do not belong here. I'll underline the problem in a quote from THIS thread:
Would you want to live in an atmosphere like this but tweaked to judge you the way he does?
Would you want to live in an atmosphere like this but tweaked to judge you the way he does?
I'm saying that there should be a counter movement if there are enough Islamics who want peace...
Wrong... He's saying that virtue of being Muslim, they are being taught that they must kill us to fulfill their religious obligations...Therefore, they all wants us dead... simple logic... not entirely true, but true enough to justify his statements...
I'm saying that there should be a counter movement if there are enough Islamics who want peace...
I'm saying that there should be a counter movement if there are enough Islamics who want peace...
Have you ever seen what happens to counter movements under strict dictatorships? Hussein had many charges of genocide against him. That is a good way to crush "counter movements" by using innocent civilians as examples. So we Americans stepped in and got rid of HIM. We did not get rid of his influence. If the threat was not existent, we would not have nearly as many troops stationed in that area. Ever hear of a weesatch tree? We have them all over the place over here. It bears many similarities. It has wicked thorns that burn when you get poked by them, they thrive in sub par conditions and if you cut them off at the ground you only make the plant harder to kill. Why? Because the plant underground is not dead. The root system gets stimulated and grows out of sight; out of reach (I'm not sh**ing you one bit, I hate these things). All we did was cut the influence at the ground. It is still there. Now back to this counter movement. When we removed the dictators there was a small counter movement because I watched many interviews of people that found courage to speak about life before we stepped in but there were not enough to grab international attention. But the violence on the street did. I find it easy to grasp how it did not pick up momentum in an area of the world where torture, shootings and bombings still haven't stopped or have become less common.
How do you propose people who believe in peace get the upper hand on people who only believe in violence? We are the United States of America and yet we have not been able to defeat them with extremely superior weapons. Saying that NO believer of Islam can be trusted because many of them choose to fight against Christains who have historically done every destructive thing possible only shows narrow mindedness on our part.
You say you want a counter movement that benefits the Muslims who are peaceful yet you support people here who make broad statements expressing their ignorance to the larger picture. I will quote him again "I have no tollerance for any muslim" yet wasn't this country built on tolerance?
This is a completely serious, no sarcasm question. How closely did you read that long quote I put up earlier? It was not a quote from this thread or this site even. It was compiled from published works on the topic.
The Five Pillars of Islam are the true virtues.
They are:
1) There is only one god and there is only one prophet (Cannot sling mud on this because otherwise we wouldn't be discussing the topic right now)
2)Pray 5 times a day (A little more devotion is asked than in Christianity but I already proved earlier that nobody follows ALL of the commandments to the letter)
3) Charity to the poor
4) Fast during Ramadan (That is irrelivant but still a central part)
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca (even this is optional if impossible)
Here is how they are twisted:
1) There is only one god and prophet, anyone who believes otherwise shall be killed.
2)Pray 5 times a day (This may be reduced or eliminated completely)
3) Charity to the poor...henchmen, they need to use that money for obtaining weapons.
4) Fasting...Not sure what they do, might still do it depending on devotion but that is in degrees depending on the individual.
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca...can be rescheduled till elderly when that day comes.
This warped ideaology should not be applied to those who believe in the fundamental (original) virtues.
Here is something I put word for word earlier.
Including the "jihad" as one of the five pillars of Islam is a common Western misunderstanding. Jihad is not among the five basic pillars of Islam. Still, "jihad" is considered to be every Muslim's duty--be it the struggle to improve society, preventing the exploitation of the poor or vulnerable, or improving oneself before the Day of Judgment.
Last edited by Tumba; Jul 28, 2010 at 06:55 AM.


