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  #46  
Old 08-17-2008, 09:59 PM
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Let's say during the first 40 years of your life, you are a murderous wretch.
You kill, rape, steal, and spend your entire life causing misery and pain to everyone you meet.

One day you have near death accident, slip into a coma, and then you have no recollection of your previous life due to amnesia.

So you begin your new life, but now you are a decent caring human being, you help people, and go out of your way to make the world a better place.

and to make it interesting for Shines, let's suppose you accept Jesus into your heart and live the rest of your life as a devout BAC.

You live for another 40 year as a near saint.

What happens when you die?

Will God forgive you for all the people you killed during your first 40 years and grant you an all access pass to Heaven?

Habibi
 
  #47  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Habibi
Let's say during the first 40 years of your life, you are a murderous wretch.
You kill, rape, steal, and spend your entire life causing misery and pain to everyone you meet.

One day you have near death accident, slip into a coma, and then you have no recollection of your previous life due to amnesia.

So you begin your new life, but now you are a decent caring human being, you help people, and go out of your way to make the world a better place.

and to make it interesting for Shines, let's suppose you accept Jesus into your heart and live the rest of your life as a devout BAC.

You live for another 40 year as a near saint.

What happens when you die?

Will God forgive you for all the people you killed during your first 40 years and grant you an all access pass to Heaven?

Habibi
I am sure Shines will answer, but since this is the general discussion I will kick in my .02

Christianity is not a works based religion, man can do nothing right in the sight of God. We are all born into a world of sin and with a sin nature, therefore you can live the life of a saint and in death will still go to hell. The only way to heaven is through the acceptance of Christ as your personal savior. God knows the heart of men, you may say the words, but unless you have truly accepted him as Lord and Savior you will burn in the flames of Hell for eternity.
 
  #48  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by scott1981
I am sure Shines will answer, but since this is the general discussion I will kick in my .02

Christianity is not a works based religion, man can do nothing right in the sight of God. We are all born into a world of sin and with a sin nature, therefore you can live the life of a saint and in death will still go to hell. The only way to heaven is through the acceptance of Christ as your personal savior. God knows the heart of men, you may say the words, but unless you have truly accepted him as Lord and Savior you will burn in the flames of Hell for eternity.
So, lets say that Adolph Hitler, Stalin. Pol Pot or Chairman Mao, right at the end, accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, they get right into Heaven for some happy ever after and don't go to your Hell?
Yet, someone who has led a good and blameless life, filled with good deeds can go to Hell?
That's not very fair, is it? Is God a vengeful God? Are we doing the Old or New Testament here?
 
  #49  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by EnglishAdam
So, lets say that Adolph Hitler, Stalin. Pol Pot or Chairman Mao, right at the end, accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, they get right into Heaven for some happy ever after and don't go to your Hell?
Yet, someone who has led a good and blameless life, filled with good deeds can go to Hell?
That's not very fair, is it? Is God a vengeful God? Are we doing the Old or New Testament here?
Man was made to live with God, he threw that opportunity away in the garden. Jesus came down in the form of a man and died so that we may have a second chance. Fair? To me giving someone a perfect life, watching them throw it away then giving them a second chance through the blood of your only son seems more than fair to me.

Seems to me your asking questions for the sole purpose of antagonizing Christians. If that is the case lets not waste each others time.
 
  #50  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by EnglishAdam
There. You said it. You cannot prove the existence of God. You can believe and have faith but to do that is not rational. It is just wishful thinking.
I have never said that I could prove it. I have only said that there is proof if you seek Him. Not seeing the intellectual or intelligent design in our world and universe is irrational.
Colossians 2:1, the header reads "Not Philosophy but Christ."

Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.


Originally Posted by EnglishAdam
Because either you, me or man in general cannot yet explain the the beginnings of the Universe, you have to attribute them to a higher being. How is this different than the early Egyptians who, not understanding the rotation of the earth, worshiped the Sun as a God, praying that it would rise every morning and sustain their life?
Is the Sun a God? Nope. It's a big fiery ball of Hydrogen. But the Egyptians could not understand it's mechanism and therefore had a belief and faith in it.
How is that belief and faith in the Sun God different to yours?
At the time you speak of, the Egyptians were putting horse dung along with other excrement on wounds. Medically speaking, the Egyptians were better off slitting the the throat of an injured patient rather than actually treating them. Hmmm, what were the Jews doing? Following Gods law keeping themselves clean.

The red heifer, as well as all the other specifications in the Torah, was an allusion which ultimately pointed to Jesus Christ, as Paul points out in
Hebrews 9:13, 14:

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
In addition to the obvious spiritual significance of the law of the Sacrifice of the Red Heifer we now understand that the water of purification described in Number 19 actually had the ability to destroy germs and infection. The resulting water of purification solution contained ashes from the Red Heifer sacrifice combined with cedar, hyssop and scarlet thread. This water of purification contained "cedar" oil that came from a kind of juniper tree that grew in both Israel and in the Sinai. This cedar oil would irritate the skin, encouraging the person to vigorously rub the solution into their hands. Most importantly, the hyssop tree-associated with mint, possibly marjoram-would produce hyssop oil. This hyssop oil is actually a very effective antiseptic and antibacterial agent. Hyssop oil contains 50 percent carvacrol which is an antifungal and antibacterial agent still used in medicine, according to the book None Of These Diseases. When we note that the waters of purification from the Red Heifer Sacrifice were to be used to cleanse someone who had become defiled and unclean due to touching a dead body, we begin to understand that this law was an incredibly effective medical law as well as a spiritual law
This is probably more than you were expecting, but it ties in with the Old Testament foretelling of the coming Savior.

Originally Posted by EnglishAdam
I'll agree that the Universe has a beauty and order. So does this snowflake pictured below.



It's quite lovely, isn't it? Was it created personally by God?
If I knew nothing about clouds, water vapor dust molecules, temperature and humidity, I could not explain it's formation scientifically. Would that prove an example of Gods existence? Your answer on the entire universe follows this path of logic.
Yes, it was personally created by God. We as man understand that there are certain Laws of Physics...God created these laws.

Gen 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
 
  #51  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TonkaTruck33
ok another questions.. ? noone really know how big our solar system is.. is god the creator of earth? or the whole chebang? there are over 100000000000 galaxies.. did he make them all?
Yes.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
 
  #52  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:48 PM
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seems to me your asking questions for the sole purpose of antagonizing christians. If that is the case lets not waste each others time.
+ 1
 
  #53  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by scott1981
I am sure Shines will answer, but since this is the general discussion I will kick in my .02

Christianity is not a works based religion, man can do nothing right in the sight of God. We are all born into a world of sin and with a sin nature, therefore you can live the life of a saint and in death will still go to hell. The only way to heaven is through the acceptance of Christ as your personal savior. God knows the heart of men, you may say the words, but unless you have truly accepted him as Lord and Savior you will burn in the flames of Hell for eternity.
I completely agree Scott.
 
  #54  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mSaLL150
Here's my question for you shines:

My mom is Presbyterian. My dad is Catholic. I go to both churches. I am baptized but not confirmed. I do have a pretty strong faith.

Is it looked down upon to be "both" and go to both churches? Its something i grew up doing and haven't stopped.
Its who your faith is in, that counts.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is through Christ, not what church one attends. Salvation is definitely not obtained by eating crackers, or following rituals set forth by man.

John 3:35-36
35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
There are hundreds of verses in the Bible that essentially break Christianity down to its simplest form. Accept Christ, and what He did for you. Thats it, get that right, and the rest will follow. Go to whatever church you choose. Just never forget, or let another deceive you to believe another way.
 
  #55  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:00 PM
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Yep, its about accepting and following the ways of Jesus Christ.
 
  #56  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:05 PM
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"Will God forgive you for all the people you killed during your first 40 years and grant you an all access pass to Heaven?"

Yes he will, and even if that person did not get amnesia and accepted Jesus he will be saved. Christianity is based upon grace, that is the difference between it and all other religions, Islam and many others is based off of fear of a higher being.
 
  #57  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by scott1981
Man was made to live with God, he threw that opportunity away in the garden. Jesus came down in the form of a man and died so that we may have a second chance. Fair? To me giving someone a perfect life, watching them throw it away then giving them a second chance through the blood of your only son seems more than fair to me.

Seems to me your asking questions for the sole purpose of antagonizing Christians. If that is the case lets not waste each others time.
So you believe snakes can talk?
 
  #58  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pgh_medic
So you believe snakes can talk?
Not everything in the Bible is literal remember genesis was written hundreds of years after the events happend. However I do believe that the devil spoke through a snake in some shape or form.
 
  #59  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pgh_medic
So you believe snakes can talk?

Genesis 3:1-5

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, ‘Did God say, “You shall not eat from any tree in the garden”?’ 2The woman said to the serpent, ‘We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; 3but God said, “You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, nor shall you touch it, or you shall die.” ’ 4But the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not die; 5for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,* knowing good and evil.’


So your question is now do I take the Bible and all in it as true. The answer is Yes, every last word
 
  #60  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:27 PM
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Snakes can't talk, but Satan can talk through a snake. I, like Scott and Shines, believe everything that the bible says who heartedly. It's the word of the Lord.
 


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