That all depends on what the big three domestic auto makers do this September when the UAW union contract is up. Right now Toyota pays $200 per vehicle for health benefits. GM for example pays $1500 per vehicle and Ford is about the same. What is killing domestic vehicles is the UAW. That union will cut off it's nose despite it's face. If Ford, Chrysler, and GM want to compete they can't just build a better looking, faster, or stronger vehicle they need to dump the UAW or the UAW needs to get a reality check. IMHO unions today are worthless overhead that do everything they can to keep the status quo. The big three are bleeding out not because they can't make a good vehicle but because they are up against a better, more efficient and streamlined business model that by the way, Detroit taught them. Ford made some headway when they offered to buy out all the UAW contracts and about half the employees took the option. We'll see if they have the ***** to finish what they started.

 

What are you talking about? Toyota already past up Ford at the number two spot and is predicted to be the number one auto maker knocking off GM later this year. It's not just about trucks. Trucks won't save you as the top three have already found out. Toyota doesn't need to make a full line of trucks. The market for 1 ton and bigger trucks is a tiny fraction of over all car sales. Besides, because Toyota is non union and doesn't have the legacy costs that the big three have they have cash to burn and can pick away at the truck market as fast or as slow as they want. Time is very much on their side.

 

That was on CNN Money last week. The reason they can get away with only putting in $200 per car is because they don't have the overhead that the big three have. I have no idea which offers the better health plan. You would think that $1500 would get you better care than $200 but I have a feeling that the $1500 for health benefits is kind of like the government paying $600 for a hammer.

 

Toyota just does not build the best trucks. For instance, look at the crash test ratings. F-150 = 5 stars (the highest rating.) The new Tundra = only 4 stars. Tundra fans are a bunch of phony hypocrites if you ask me. I was browsing a Tundra friendly forum and they were saying that the Tundra is the "toughest" and that "only wussies drive 5 star trucks." If this was Ford with the faulty crash test ratings they would all be saying how much Ford sucks because of it. Aren't they being hypocritical?

 

I had the opportunity to check out a new Tundra at the local fair yesterday. It was a well optioned crew cab with the 5.7L, which the young salesman took great pleasure in bragging about. He didn't have much to say about the $44,000 price tag however, which was printed so small on the window sticker you almost needed a microscope to read it lol. A nice powertrain and slick features (full sliding back window, adjustable back seat, pop-out tailgate, etc) don't mean much if the average Joe can't afford it. At that price you would think they could at least put some 6 lug wheels on it . I don't think Ford has anything to worry about unless Toyota can put that engine/trans in a truck for less than $30K (have they done it yet?).

I personally hope the new tundra does well, if that's what it takes for Ford to get the message.

 

Exactly, thats how I feel about the Tundra. I dont care for it, I dont really like it, but if that's what it takes to get Ford's attention to increase power and update the dated drivetrain on the F150 then so be it. Im one of the few guys on here that doesnt think that everything Ford puts out is gold. I think for myself and set my own standards, and an over rated 300HP and 4spd are not enough for this heavy of a truck.

 

I don't see what the big deal is. Toyo took a 04 F-150 and changed a few of the angles and did some fuglying up on it. They then slapped a "better" motor and the 6 speed in it.

presto, they have a new truck. it's FUGLY, and I still haven't seen one off the dealer lot yet. It sounds good on paper, but the production example isn't impressing me at all.

from the rumors, I'm hoping to see the 6.2 in a year or 2. I'm looking to buy a new F-150 in 09, so I've got my fingers crossed.

 

I think the big question should be how will the 2009 F150 compare to the 2009 Ram...both are schedualed for revamps that year.

The Ram WILL be available with a V8 Cummins Turbo Diesel with 260-300 hp and 460 lb-ft...and 20 mpg city, 25 highway. For the F150 to compete I sure hope the rumers of it getting a little PS are true!

Also there will be new version of the HEMI V8 in the Ram 1500 in 2009. Probably to a 5.9L or 6.1L. The new engine will feature next generation MDS, a 3-valve per cylinder configuration, and variable valve timing. It will be somewhere around the 400 horsepower mark. Towing capacity should be over 10,500 lb and be equipped with 6-speed automatic, as well as the two lesser engines with 6-speed manual transmissions.

Like I said I sure hope Ford steps up because the new Ram is going to be bad!

And for all you "I would rather drive a ford than push a (fill in the blank)", thats fine...its your sells that Ford figures it has in the bag anyway. Its the rest of us they better in press!

 

I'd have to agree with you - I think the Toyota is going to be a bigger threat to the F-150 than most folks think. Like it or not - Toyota has a huge advantage in quality (at least in public perception) and that matters a lot to folks shelling out big $$'s for a preimum truck. Toyota takes a while to "perfect the mix" on a new segment vehicle (anyone remember the "T-100" ) but they do keep improving/changing things until they get it right....remember when the Taurus was the best selling grocery getter in the US....Camry has had that honor for quite a few years now.

My biggest disappointment with my '05 F-150 Lariat 4x4 SCREW is the sloppy, unprecise engine/transmission management programming. My truck has always had "thumps, bumps, etc." from the drivetrain - it's just not engineered as precisly as I would like. While great for towing/hauling, it's a bit annoying in everyday around town driving....and before I shelled out $800.00 for a tuner and CAI - it was absolutely lethargic!! Example, my brother has the same truck - he purchsed 2 weeks after I did. He is not a "gearhead" and rarely spends any $$'s on his vehicles after purchase...but he was so disappointed with the overall powertrain response/lethargic feeling - he spent $800.00 to have his truck perform like it should have from the factory! Also, don't get me started on the squeeling brakes and the hugh amout of brake dust these things throw off. I like my F-150 but see room for lots of improvement that would keep Ford on top - if only Ford is listening....

 

Yea and they don't have to be in something long to get it right either. This is a VERY competant auto company. They will be #1 and they know it. People practically blow in their shorts over their vehicles, on the other hand with my Ford people will say things like "are you serious you bought a Ford?" or I can't believe you bought one of those. I am sorry but they pretty much shot themselves in the foot, then they support all of the Gay marriage stuff with peoples money who may not believe in that sort of thing yet again disuading and angering customers. I think their strategy is to Close the doors as FOMOCO thus relieving themselves of the Union and debt and then they will come back again. I agree about the UAW too, here is a good mentality, sabotage and make a poor product until you strongarm your employer into submission, sounds like old Mafioso tactics, we can't compete with this.

 

"To each his own," right?

I've owned Toyota trucks in the past. Maybe they make 'em better now. Matters little to me. I will NEVER own another one. My experience? Good motors, good drive trains. Lasted a LONG time. Everything else sucked. Poor paint job. Cheap materials. Weak, thin metal. Bad welds. Next to zero rust resistance (important up here in the NW region).

I have owned Fords for the past 15 years. GOOD trucks. Have not really done the "drive them till they die" but from my experience, every bit as good as Toyota in the motor and drive train department. Great paint jobs, good materials, STRONG trucks, good metal, beefy welds and zero rust. And the warranty work, little of it for me, was always instantaneous, no questions asked.

'NOUGH SAID.

 

There is talk of Ford making a Hybrid F150 in 08' or 09' expected to get 60 mpg but of course it won't be much of a power-house, if Ford wants to compete at the truck level they will definitely have to make the new F150 a much more ""efficient"" truck with ""a lot"" of power. Like you said the Ram will be an efficient powerhouse.
A 6 speed tranny would probably do the trick

 

I had a cummins starting to pull ahead of me at WOT the other day on the interstate.....
Granted it was obviously modded, with atleast a tuner probably more and I am stock.

Ohh and I had 400 lbs of equipment in the back seat and another 500+ lbs in the bed. Almost 1/2 ton of cargo and not squatting or swaying.

Beat that!!!!!

 

Actually, the hybrid is not dependent on the motor at all. It is a hydraulic accumulator setup run by kinetics from the rear axle. It's design favors a heavier vehicle over a light one. In fact, the heavier, the better for the city mileage. (The balance has to come from the effect on the highway mileage.) The 60MPG is CITY mileage. The highway mileage will be the same as it is now.

This design is completely independent from the motor, so the truck could have ANY motor Ford offers. You could have the Boss 6.2, or whatever they end up calling it, and still get 60 MPG in the city.

 

ya i worry more about the 09 ram than the toy, the ram is at least good looking and people know it has power, they also aren't afraid to bump up their power a lot, i also see a lot more rams than tundras, the only thing the ram has against it is that it is a dodge truck