On the contrary, to think all popular tuners are equal without hard data to back it up is naive. I didn't make this a "pissing match" as I related my experience with Mike, and tried to keep VMP out of it until you brought it into my part of this discussion. I really don't like getting into the game of knocking companies, its not my style.

I never said they were liars. I am, however, suggesting that some folks don't have real dyno numbers and data to back up their butt-dyno. I trust data logging and dyno plots over the butt-dyno any day. Not knowing the data doesn't make someone a liar... it simply means they don't know the data.

Please consider your own advice. I posted my experiences and said nothing about VMP until it was dragged into a quoted reply of my post. Let's be fair about that... I tried to keep them out of it. As I noted, its not my style to knock other companies (there's only one company I'll publically even hint I outright don't like and I won't give opinions on them, just point to data at the BBB site but that's an entirely different topic).

I'm the guy who wrote all the Roush project truck articles at Ford-trucks.com. Ken. Its been an on-going project with Roush involved at day-one and Mike Troyer from nearly the beginning (naturally Roush isn't officially involved these days considering the mods to the truck). As someone who has done a lot of wrenching on vehicles having anyone besides myself tune my truck isn't something I take lightly --- I did a lot of research on SCT's dealer forums to sort the wheat from the chaff, seeing who really knew the intricate details of Roush blowers, before I made my decision to hand my tuning over to someone else.

I'll be more than happy to consider someone else's tunes if there is hard data to back it up but so far none has been forthcoming.

 

Please, don't twist what I said. I said "so much" better, like you had basically said in your first post. I'd say you were knocking not only Justin but Doug and Bill along with any other reputable tuner like the guys at Stage 6, JDM, etc.

I think we can all agree that we would consider a dyno sheet a more reliable source of information. No one is disputing that. However, when quite a few people are liking the tunes over the other guys than it seems like they might be pretty good. Please note, I'm not putting down anyone else's tunes, I won't do that. I'll only recommend my choice which is VMP.

One thing that you didn't answer ...

I think we both know the answer to that, especially with your experience with tuning and Mike's tuning. I'd say that was a pretty low blow .. We could go back and forth with it all day long about this one vehicle put down better numbers than this vehicle with this tuning, etc. I won't lie, I've seen some vehicles that Mike has tuned put down better numbers than Justin's. Than again, I've seen some vehicles that Justin has tuned put down better numbers than Mike's. So like I said earlier, they are both great tuners, take it for what it's worth.

 

I was not attempting to twist anything, and did not mean for it to come across that way in the least. If that's what you got from my post(s), my apologies because it was not my intention.

IMHO, there's a difference between knocking a group and elevating an invididual. Citing the tuning accompliments of Mike does not diminish others, it simple illustrates the high regard I have for Mike Troyer's work.

Let's see some dyno sheets. I posted mine and would love to see dyno plots you have for your truck.

One of the themes you'll often see is people believe the best is simply what they spent their money on, often without factual data. I won't disagree with their opinions that they like their tunes, but I'd like to see actual dyno data.

Not intentional. If you look at my posts you'll see I've tried to cover my bases and answer as best I can (I type about 90 wpm so I tend to put a lot into my posts).

To answer it...

True, it is often the case that two similar vehicles will yield different results due in part to different PCM strategies, build dates (for instance, the 2007+ had a manifold change), and differing tolerances (even for two identical vehicles with the same build dates and PCM strategies). However, a vehicle with dramatically more additions (more boost, better exhaust) should not dyno so much worse than a vehicle with less additions, especially with both using SAE corrected plots from the same dyno manufacturer.

Nothing was a "low blow", just my experience and a new dyno plot on a more modified vehicle verses 2 year old plots on a lesser modified vehicle. That's data, pure and simple.

It would be interesting to see the data logging for such vehicles. As I noted in my original post, a tuner can yield "better" numbers with leaner a/f but that doesn't neccessarily show the entire picture. I look at the a/f as well as the raw HP/TQ as it factors quite a bit into longevity. I never stated VMP wasn't great, not once. Rather, I am simply relating my experience and didn't believe it would make me a target (perhaps aggressiveness is par for the course here?). I'll post up my newest articles when they are done and will let the data, videos, plots and numbers speak for themselves. Until then... so long and have a good weekend (if its anything like it is here in Atlanta the weather is beautiful). Seriously... have a good weekend, this isn't something worth getting into a verbal tangle about.

 

HI!... DigitalMarket : Very well said in your 1ST few posts. I couldn't of said it any better. Since I type about "20" words a minute..... lol! One finger method. I'll leave the long posts to you.

 

What I was saying by normal is Mike said that the issue was normal, and to just put the vehicle locked out of o/d. He would get on here and bash people saying that it is not a problem in his tunes; when it was and could be fixed. I knew the issue and how to fix it. Mike wouldn't listen to a thing i said even if i told him 1+1=2, he would still argue with me, and ramble on about how much better he was, etc. He needs an attitude ajustment overall. I wish you could see this, but you are the guy that writes the articles that sell his products. So i am sure he will always be as nice to you as cake.

 

you have been crying about this for 2 or 3 years.

MIke must have really hurt your feelings

 

Nah not at all. Just showing Ken, that Mike has a split personality to some of us.

 

i recently ordered a VMP tune, single tune only. I would ahve gone with troyer again except I didn't have the time to wait. When I had troyer tunes in my green truck it ran flawlessly-Mike nailed the a/f in each gear and when i had some shift point issues it was Mike who helped me figure out I had the wrong gear ratio on my order sheets.

I have had a good experience with troyer and I hope this VMP tune is also a good experience. I will know in a couple days if I will enjoy both tunes. I would gladly do business with troyer again...

 

I see that all the 'usuals' are still in here playing baseball without wearing a helmet while batting...

All I'm going to say here is that this *will* stay civil or there *will* be long term and/or permanent dismissals. This crap is WAY old and WAY beaten to death by the same folks (on all sides of the preference coin)...

 

i see mostly talk of tunes with 5.4 3v. Since it seems like i got a solid group of experienced people watching this help me out.
5.4 2v is what i got. i have read bits and pieces here of people saying that 91 octane is the way to go, but the threads seem to die after all this. why is 91 better for the 2v? i want to go custome tunes, but am un-decided of the tunes to order(not so much as from who, because all i will do to my truck is exhaust). i dont tow anything as of now, but hope if things work out a boat could be in the future. what do ya'll think would be my grand slam? (03 supercab 5.4 2v fx4 axle code h9 (think thats 3.55ls) and running 265/70r17 bighorns)

 

In short, you can make more power with higher octane. Why 91? Because 93 isn't available in every market.

 

I have 3 tunes now. 91 Tow, 91 street and 94 Kill. With a blower I will not run under 91 octane. Without the blower I would get 87 tow, 91 performance and 94 kill.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

It's funny how most of the reply's on this topic are people running no power adders. You have people with cat back exhausts and colld air intakes getting custom tunes. Why don't you send me 400-500 dollars and have your neighbor kick ya in the nuts instead. BTW I'm going with Troyer after inquiring both tuners, the first thing VMP did, was give me links to parts I needed prior to tuning, on his site "of coarse" I've already purchased everything I need. I think he has himself on his priority list, although I'm sure both are quite capable, it's the "passion of job well done" that I'm after... I'm not trying to bash people with little to no engine performance mods getting tunes, but don't you have any respect for money?

 

Well dude the first thing I bought for my truck was a Canned superchips tuner and it was about $400 and worth every penny. It made a huge difference!

If I would have known better I would have gotten custom tunes cause they aren't much more.

I don't know what your experience is but I think that a aftermarket tune is probably the best bank for the buck mod for any stock truck.

 

The factory spends a ton of money trying to get Great performance, great economy,and the lowest amount of problems out of any vehicle, and if they didn't, they would lose buisiness to the other companies. I think tuning has its place, for modded engines that require changes for optimal all around efficiencies and performance. I believe psychological gains are defineately prevalant. I have to laugh when people get a cai and think they're actually gaining 20hp because the box says so, then a cat back claims another 20 then now we're talking 40 more horses over stock, just telling you, "I'm not that guy" christ, by the time you step up for a blower or some nitrous you'd be a 9 second terror as well!