ESP
#46
12-07-1999, 07:58 AM
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That's a fact, Holmes, your 3/36 is SUPPOSED to take care of alternate transportation. Unless, of course, you're using that Fred Jones bunch, then you have to brow beat them to get ANYTHING.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
#47
12-07-1999, 02:23 PM
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The extended warranty does pay for rental car coverage during the Ford 3/36 warranty.
I purchased the 5/75 extended warranty for $500 on my 98 F-150. I purchased this based on my experiences with my previous car.
I had a 92 Grand AM that I bought new, purchased the 5/75 extended warranty on, and drove 92K. The extended warranty rebuilt my tranny twice ($2500), replaced my water pump ($500), replaced my guage cluster ($1250), replaced both tie rod ends ($250), replaced the PS pump & rack-n-pinion unit ($700), and countless other things. In addition, it paid for my rental car each time. This alone was probably close to the $500. This adds up to $5700.
Concerning independent garages performing the repairs... I have the "peace of mind" that a GM dealer performed all the repairs. This was good, since I traveled between Dallas and Lubbock frequently.
For me, the ESP was/is a good investment. If I had purchased a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, I would not have purchased the ESP.
Jim
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1998 F-150 XLT SC 5.4L
I purchased the 5/75 extended warranty for $500 on my 98 F-150. I purchased this based on my experiences with my previous car.
I had a 92 Grand AM that I bought new, purchased the 5/75 extended warranty on, and drove 92K. The extended warranty rebuilt my tranny twice ($2500), replaced my water pump ($500), replaced my guage cluster ($1250), replaced both tie rod ends ($250), replaced the PS pump & rack-n-pinion unit ($700), and countless other things. In addition, it paid for my rental car each time. This alone was probably close to the $500. This adds up to $5700.
Concerning independent garages performing the repairs... I have the "peace of mind" that a GM dealer performed all the repairs. This was good, since I traveled between Dallas and Lubbock frequently.
For me, the ESP was/is a good investment. If I had purchased a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, I would not have purchased the ESP.
Jim
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1998 F-150 XLT SC 5.4L
#48
12-07-1999, 04:32 PM
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Looks like you've been lied to by a dealer, crash1. I'd save my ESP money, and invest in a second vehicle for emergencies.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
#49
12-07-1999, 04:57 PM
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It's a well known fact, a dealership charges a considerably higher price for both labor and parts. If all of your work is done by those boneheads, then yes, you could probably use an ESP. Fred Jones tried to hit me up for a carburetor rebuild on my '93 Mazda B2200 (they have a monopoly on Mazda here, too) to the tune of $990. When I got my Mazda home, I found out they didn't even diagnose it correctly! It needed a new base plate gasket and an O2 sensor, set me back all of $60. What kind of work do you think a dealership offers, when they charge YOU a labor rate of around $70/hour and pay their mechanics $12/hour? You're asking for nothing but trouble. An independent shop depends a lot more on word of mouth and reputation, and since they own/lease their own shop, rates are better. The quality of work is BETTER than any dealership, always is. So no, I don't believe for a minute, because they "live, eat, and breathe Fords" they'll do a better job. Hells bells, these guys'll be down at Jiffy Lube next week. All of the so called "Ford parts" can be had at any reputable parts house. Go buy a Fel-Pro rear main seal, check out the Ford oval trade mark on the seal itself. If the ESPs are such a good deal, WHY DO SALESMEN HAVE TO PUSH THEM SO HARD?! WHY DO THEY STRONG ARM PEOPLE INTO BUYING THEM?! IF AN ESP IS SO DAMNED NECESSARY, WHY ARE SO MANY OLDER CARS STILL ON THE ROAD?!
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 12-07-1999).]
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 12-07-1999).]
#50
12-07-1999, 11:41 PM
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FordMan,
Let me begin by saying; I admire your tenacity on this subject. After reviewing most of these posts on this thread, the majority of participants seem to agree that the ESP is a good idea. You seem to be the only one in disagreement of this consensus. I may add, that there is nothing wrong with points made on both sides of this issue, however it seems that you have a real "hard on" for Ford, mainly the folks at the dealership in Oklahoma that you have mentioned in some of your posts. I can see why your peeved off. Certainly, as you have stated, the majority of vehicles on the road won't ever require the coverage of an ESP, but I don't gamble, don't play cards, I like a sure thing, and ESP provides that to me. Never have been "strong armed" into buying anything, specifically an ESP. Most people aren't intimidated unless they're weak and insecure about themselves. As far as the quality of Ford technicians, I never have had any scenario's of having to bring a vehicle back due to unsatisfactory work. Ford's work has always has been top notch. You questioned, and I quote: "IF AN ESP IS SO DAMNED NECESSARY, WHY ARE SO MANY OLDER CARS STILL ON THE ROAD?!" Well, FordMan, probably because of several factors; 1) They have undergone repairs to keep them roadworthy, 2)Some of the owners have had to pay for repairs out of their own pockets, 3)Some smart owners have had ESP to cover those repairs or, 4)they're the few that were built correctly to enjoy their current state of longevity. Of course, you can disagree with these points if you personally know the history of each and every car and truck on the road, as I believe you are attempting to report here. You fail to mention the thousands of vehicles that are scrapped or sitting dormant since the owners cannot afford the repairs. Again, ESP selection is a personal choice for owners concerned with high repair bills. When my powertrain components start to exhibit failure after repeated trips to Delaware's surf, I know that Ford will have replacement parts and installation available to me at no charge.
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
[This message has been edited by wjt (edited 12-08-1999).]
Let me begin by saying; I admire your tenacity on this subject. After reviewing most of these posts on this thread, the majority of participants seem to agree that the ESP is a good idea. You seem to be the only one in disagreement of this consensus. I may add, that there is nothing wrong with points made on both sides of this issue, however it seems that you have a real "hard on" for Ford, mainly the folks at the dealership in Oklahoma that you have mentioned in some of your posts. I can see why your peeved off. Certainly, as you have stated, the majority of vehicles on the road won't ever require the coverage of an ESP, but I don't gamble, don't play cards, I like a sure thing, and ESP provides that to me. Never have been "strong armed" into buying anything, specifically an ESP. Most people aren't intimidated unless they're weak and insecure about themselves. As far as the quality of Ford technicians, I never have had any scenario's of having to bring a vehicle back due to unsatisfactory work. Ford's work has always has been top notch. You questioned, and I quote: "IF AN ESP IS SO DAMNED NECESSARY, WHY ARE SO MANY OLDER CARS STILL ON THE ROAD?!" Well, FordMan, probably because of several factors; 1) They have undergone repairs to keep them roadworthy, 2)Some of the owners have had to pay for repairs out of their own pockets, 3)Some smart owners have had ESP to cover those repairs or, 4)they're the few that were built correctly to enjoy their current state of longevity. Of course, you can disagree with these points if you personally know the history of each and every car and truck on the road, as I believe you are attempting to report here. You fail to mention the thousands of vehicles that are scrapped or sitting dormant since the owners cannot afford the repairs. Again, ESP selection is a personal choice for owners concerned with high repair bills. When my powertrain components start to exhibit failure after repeated trips to Delaware's surf, I know that Ford will have replacement parts and installation available to me at no charge.
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
[This message has been edited by wjt (edited 12-08-1999).]
#51
12-08-1999, 12:39 AM
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#52
12-08-1999, 01:41 PM
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Okay, wjt, I don't know if you're suffering from short term memory loss or what, but if you'll REVIEW the previous posts, you'll PLAINLY SEE, I am NOT THE ONLY ONE who thinks ESPs are a WASTE OF MONEY! No, every older vehicle still in use has not had major repairs, nor are they all flukes of nature in the industrial world. Most likely, they've been maintained properly by their owners. My '93 Mazda B2200 has 171K miles, and counting, NO ESP, NO MAJOR REPAIRS! My '85 Honda Accord has 151K miles, and counting, NO ESP, NO MAJOR REPAIRS! My Dad's '85 F150 has 151K miles, NO ESP AND NO MAJOR REPAIRS! My '80 Honda Civic went 217K before needing a rebuild, HOW WOULD AN ESP HAVE HELPED THERE?! My '74 Galaxie with its 351W/FMX trans went 245K miles, before I sold it, and NO ESP, NO MAJOR REPAIRS! SHALL I CONTINUE?! Not EVERY vehicle is suffering from spun bearings, bad transmissions, etc. Insecure individuals are the ones believing a Ford dealership is the only source of quality parts and repair services for their vehicles. I have another clue for you kids, that Mommy and Daddy forgot to tell you: IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO MAINTAIN AND REPAIR YOUR VEHICLE WITHOUT AN ESP, YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE VEHICLE! Sorry to break it to you, Pollyanna, but there's no Santa Claus either.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
#53
12-08-1999, 01:44 PM
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FordMan...thought I'd get a "rise" outta you, ;-) It's funny how you mentioned that your most reliable vehicles are imports....
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
[This message has been edited by wjt (edited 12-08-1999).]
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
[This message has been edited by wjt (edited 12-08-1999).]
#54
12-08-1999, 07:46 PM
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Geez WJT you seemed to have found all the wrong buttons on Ford Man.
I'll put in my 2 cents on this.
I've had my f150 for a year now, not a single problem. When I got the offer from Ford for an ESP I read it and bought it. My reasoning: Do I want to spend $1000 now to keep from spending $2000 to $3000 later on a new transmission or engine? Damn right I do. And if you think these things don't happen, ask all the people with piston slap.
My wife bought a Mustang 3 months ago, that piece of crap's been to the dealer 5 times already, I expect this trend to continue for the life of the car. We would have bought an ESP except Ford beat us to it and gave it to us for FREE.
I have a '67 mustang (with 240k miles) that never had an ESP either, an alternator for that is $30, the same part for my truck is almost $200. THAT's why we buy ESPs.
It may be a waste of money for you, but other's see value in it that you don't, that doesn't mean either of you is a idiot ... or a pollyana for that matter.
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1999 Lariat Super Cab, S.B. 5.4L, 3.55 LS
and everything but the leaky slider window.
Bright red w/ gold 2-tone, Leather Captain's Chairs
Mods: Duraliner bedliner, Bugflector II, Hide-a-hooks.
& a leeetle chrome tip on the exhaust.
I'll put in my 2 cents on this.
I've had my f150 for a year now, not a single problem. When I got the offer from Ford for an ESP I read it and bought it. My reasoning: Do I want to spend $1000 now to keep from spending $2000 to $3000 later on a new transmission or engine? Damn right I do. And if you think these things don't happen, ask all the people with piston slap.
My wife bought a Mustang 3 months ago, that piece of crap's been to the dealer 5 times already, I expect this trend to continue for the life of the car. We would have bought an ESP except Ford beat us to it and gave it to us for FREE.
I have a '67 mustang (with 240k miles) that never had an ESP either, an alternator for that is $30, the same part for my truck is almost $200. THAT's why we buy ESPs.
It may be a waste of money for you, but other's see value in it that you don't, that doesn't mean either of you is a idiot ... or a pollyana for that matter.
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1999 Lariat Super Cab, S.B. 5.4L, 3.55 LS
and everything but the leaky slider window.
Bright red w/ gold 2-tone, Leather Captain's Chairs
Mods: Duraliner bedliner, Bugflector II, Hide-a-hooks.
& a leeetle chrome tip on the exhaust.
#56
12-09-1999, 08:03 AM
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Okay, wjt, you're making me weary now. Did you happen to notice I mentioned an '85 F150, or a '74 Galaxie, or a '94 T-bird, or a '92 F150, PREVIOUSLY?! As for the F150s and Mustangs, DON'T COMPARE THEM! I just received the Y2K Consumer Reports Buying Guide yesterday. F150s are rated WAY ABOVE average on reliability of their drivetrains and Mustangs are rated WAY BELOW average. I'd be curious to hear from an actuary from either Ford's ESP department or an independent firm as to the frequency of breakdowns that they're basing their policies. I think you might have a BETTER chance of being struck by lightning, than having the kind of problems ESP companies are trying to scare everyone into believing can happen on an almost daily basis.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
#57
12-09-1999, 11:49 AM
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Fordman, -certainly I noticed that you mentioned a couple of domestics, just was drawn to your mention of those imports in your post. After all, the topic of this thread is ESP for our trucks, and we are exploring the worthiness of obtaining or maintaining ESP's for our trucks, not other makes or models of vehicles. That's like comparing apples and oranges here.....
There is not one absolute answer to this issue, you've energetically proved that with your examples and insight, and I thank you for your spin on Ford's ESP...
-kindest regards
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
There is not one absolute answer to this issue, you've energetically proved that with your examples and insight, and I thank you for your spin on Ford's ESP...
-kindest regards
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
#58
12-09-1999, 06:29 PM
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OKAY, WJT, SEE MY LAST POST!!!!!!! REFERRING TO THE Y2K CONSUMER REPORTS BUYING GUIDE, FORD F150s ARE RATED WELL ABOVE AVERAGE IN REGARDS TO RELIABILITY OF THEIR DRIVETRAINS!! I.E., YOU ARE VERY UNLIKELY TO EVER EXPERIENCE ANY MAJOR MECHANICAL FAILURES, THEREBY NEGATING THE NEED FOR ANY EXTENDED COVERAGE!!!!! I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT, CONSUMER REPORTS IS HIGHLY SKEPTICAL OF ESP PROGRAMS AND HIGHLY ENCOURAGES ITS MEMBERS TO SAVE THEIR MONEY WHEN IT COMES TO THE PURCHASE OF THIS COVERAGE. CONSUMER REPORTS RANKS ESPs RIGHT IN THERE WITH THE PURCHASE OF DEALER UNDERCOATING AND SCOTCHGARD GIMMICKS.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
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'98 F150 XL Regular Cab, LWB, 4.2L V6, 5 Spd, 3.55 LS, Rhino Lining, factory heavy duty suspension, 3" Gibson Swept Side Cat Back, K&N filter, Oxford White minus the two tone garbage. BIG TIME FoMoCo p/u fan, not some fair weather hammerhead.
#59
12-09-1999, 07:13 PM
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Well, I hope noone thinks I was trying to start a flame war.
If they lied, I will deal with it. If I find anything new, I will post it.
And uh, Homer- We Ford AND ASE certified gearheads have performed enough major powertrain repairs under ESP to warrant the purchase of one.
I say this not even considering all the unhappy (to put it mildly) customers and cars pushed outside because of the cost of repairs. If you think this does not happen in the "independent" world, you are mistaken. I have personal friends who own independent shops.
Customers don't even want to pay diagnostic time. And you know what? Neither do I.
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'98 4.6 5-sp F-150
We've come for your Tundra.
http://www.mcmullenargus.com/gallery...ge=1165&pub=12
trixters-playground@excite.com
www.truckinweb.com
If they lied, I will deal with it. If I find anything new, I will post it.
And uh, Homer- We Ford AND ASE certified gearheads have performed enough major powertrain repairs under ESP to warrant the purchase of one.
I say this not even considering all the unhappy (to put it mildly) customers and cars pushed outside because of the cost of repairs. If you think this does not happen in the "independent" world, you are mistaken. I have personal friends who own independent shops.
Customers don't even want to pay diagnostic time. And you know what? Neither do I.
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'98 4.6 5-sp F-150
We've come for your Tundra.
http://www.mcmullenargus.com/gallery...ge=1165&pub=12
trixters-playground@excite.com
www.truckinweb.com
#60
12-09-1999, 07:45 PM
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No "flame war" ongoing here Crash1....
FordMan, take a look at my post in Engines...
My truck is sitting at the dealer WITH A BRAND NEW 5.4L CURRENTLY LEAKING COOLANT FROM THE MANIFOLD. Quality parts ? Wait till it happens to you....
Still miss my truck, the Ford dealer in Maryland is good, and I'll get my truck back in good shape (once they locate a gasket for it)
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...
FordMan, take a look at my post in Engines...
My truck is sitting at the dealer WITH A BRAND NEW 5.4L CURRENTLY LEAKING COOLANT FROM THE MANIFOLD. Quality parts ? Wait till it happens to you....
Still miss my truck, the Ford dealer in Maryland is good, and I'll get my truck back in good shape (once they locate a gasket for it)
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1999 F150 4x4, wedgewood blue, 5.4l auto, Manick brush guard, Duraliner, KC Hilites, surf rod holders, tinted windows, K&N air filter without airbox, Gibson side swept exhaust, toolbox, Uniden CB with whip, and now, currently under anethesia at Academy Ford in Laurel, Maryland, undergoing a heart transplant (to replace a Piston Slapp'in Engine)...