Ok I'm reposting this here since this board gets more views than the 97-03 boards and this is engine specific.

Its a 2001 Supercrew 4x4 5.4L with 104k miles. All routine maintenance performed as it should be. Full synthetic run in it since new, changed every 5000 miles with a fresh filter. The typical 100k scheduled maintenance was performed at 85,000 miles - fuel filter, tranny flush, fuel system cleaning/flush, radiator system flushed, plugs and boots changed, etc. (all of this by a Ford Dealership tech - the shop foreman actually...he does my work on the side at his house). No known problems prior to that or immediately after.

Fast forward to about 18 months ago. My truck starting having some very intermittent starting issues. Occasionally when I got in the truck and turned the key it wouldnt start on the first try - it would turn over like nothing was wrong, but wouldnt actually start. I would turn the key off and try again and it would fire right up as if nothing was wrong. This problem became more and more prominent as time went on. I spoke to my tech about it and he said it sounded like the fuel pump check valve and that we needed to replace it if it got worse, which it would. Well it got worse, eventually where it would do that a couple of times a day, but never got where it happened everytime. He replaced the fuel pump about seven months ago. He said the pump was absolutely trashed - as in it was in pieces. He also replaced the fuel filter at the same time.

All was well for a week or two, and then all of a sudden the same issue was back. I called him and he told me to keep track of when it was doing it, and the circumstances around each time it happened (first start of the day, restart with only a few minutes of downtime, sitting for hours, rain, etc.). I started watching it and it gradually got worse over the last few months. This whole time its been doing the same thing - turn the key over and the engine turns over, but never starts. Turn the key off and try again and it starts right up. Then a few weeks back a new symptom develops. If the truck doesnt start right up, then the second attempt will actually start, but it would hesitate and stumble and act like it wants to die unless I give it some gas and sort of feather the throttle a little. It would come out of it and be fine at that point. This got worse and then two weekends ago, the truck started fine one saturday morning. I drove it to my warehouse and came back (15 minutes round trip). I let the truck sit for a couple hours and then tried to start it and it wont start. It will turn over, but wont start no matter how many times I try. I tried it thirty times and still nothing. My tech says check things like the air filter (based on the choking hesitation symptom that had started recently) and then the fuel pump relay. I replaced the air filter after checking it because the plastic nose cone had come off of the filter in there and was loose inside the air filter housing. I put a drop in K&N filter in it. The truck still wont start. I attempt to remove the fuel pump relay and cant seem to get it all the way out (it was getting late and I was tired, hands were greasy, etc) so I just pushed it back in place and closed the hood. Before I went in I wanted to check to see if the fuel pump was running when I turned the key on, so I had my gf turn the key on and off a few times while I was under the truck - sure enough I could hear the pump running so I told her to try and crank it. It cranked right up. So I figured me jiggling the relay did something, so the problem must be the relay. I went and picked up a new relay from the dealership and waited to install it for a few days because the problem went away. When the starting issue happened again yesterday I went ahead and swapped the relay out and everything seemed fine. I get in the truck today and it starts fine on the first try. I drive six minutes away and park for about 45 minutes. I get back and try to crank. The problem is back, and it takes three attempts to get it to start.

I'm about to pull my hair out - what else could it be. My Ford tech is lost - I am going to drop my truck off at his shop, but he said it could take some time to figure this out. I really don't want to be without my truck for a month while he tries to isolate this problem (I know I dont have a choice, and I am going to do it - just looking for suggestions I could give him to speed things along).

Thanks for any insight you guys can give.

 

Any codes? When you crank and no start has anyone checked if you are getting spark? It may appear to be fuel but could also be electrical. A bad CID sensor will let you start about 50% of the time, a loose connection anywhere will give you fits as well.

 

Sounds like Fram took another motor. Compression test it, bet it's toast. That's what can happen running a Fram filter of ANY kind. Your filter fell apart, therefor totally bypassing. You might get lucky with a MAF cleaning, but iduno, -hows your luck lol.

 

If it is not the compression, check fuel pressure. If you don't have fuel pressure, listen for the fuel pump to come on when you turn the key to "on" if you hear it, double check that it is creating the right amount of pressure (about 35 psi). If you hear the fuel pump but no pressure, it could be your pressure regulator. If you don't hear the pump, it could be the pump again, just cause you changed it doesn' mean thats not the problem. Did you put one of those piece of junk pumps from carquest or autozone in it? Some parts I actually pay the dealer price for becuase they are better, like fuel pumps. Do you regularly operate with the fuel light on? The pump uses the fuel in the tank to cool itself, if there is no fuel in the tank the pump runs hot and drastically shortend the life of the pump.

If non of that is the problem, check spark, if you getting that then check compression.

Basically, you have to eliminate the problems until you find the answer. If the engine is getting gas, and spark and its cranking, Jbrew is right.

 

Right, that's probably the first thing his mechanic will check, -should be anyway. Actually 29 psi still passes believe it or not, but 31 - 35 is average. A bad regulator could cause it as well. Or what Dynotech suggests. Sounds like low compression IMO.

 

The fuel pump and all parts installed came directly from the Ford dealership - its all my mechanic will use (the Ford Tech).

As far as the filter goes, it only fell apart in the last couple of days - I heard the plastic cone piece pop off of it when I gave it some gas (it was popping inside the housing). Nothing else about the filter was damaged - just the cone fell off. It was maybe cranked one time since that happened before the filter was changed.

I will have the MAF checked out as well as compression.

So how exactly do these Fram filters kill engines? The truck is running fine other than this occasional starting issue. It cranks right up and drives without any issues.

 

You need to use your search bar, it's been explained more than once on this site. Ford try's to help you guys out that don't know better. There's a book in the glove box, sticker under the hood and a basic Haynes or Chilton's manuals that list what replacement parts to use. If you don't know what your doing, look in the fricken book lol.

Ask your tech about that.

 

Ok I searched and found the info about the Fram filter issues - I was unaware of the issue prior to now, and this was the first time one had failed on me. The engine wasn't run for more than a minute after the cone popped off.

As far as looking in the book goes - I don't know what you were getting at with that. I've never known the Haynes or Chilton's manuals or the Ford Owner's Manual to say don't use Fram - how else was I supposed to know.

All other parts on the truck are OEM Ford replacement parts direct from the dealership parts counter.

JBrew - would an engine with bad compression have the occasional starting issues mine is, but then run fine the rest of the time? I pull an enclosed 7x12 tandem axle trailer loaded with sound equipment and lighting rigs about three days a week and havent noticed any loss in power. The truck runs absolutely fine everytime it starts - no noises, plenty of power, etc. It just seems like its not getting fuel on occasion. As soon as I turn the key off and try again it fires right up almost instantly.

 

Well their not going to come right out and say not to use a certain product, that's for us to do lol. Trial and error, so you don't have to learn the hard way.

The books give you a name and a part #. Stickers award you a clue, like this one -



Like oil, your running 100% Syn, that isn't even recommended. This is -



You most likely haven't hurt it running that pricey stuff. Personally, I only trust the 100% in the drive train, not the crankcase.

The manufacturer has gone to great lengths testing and providing the best replacement parts, more so than 3rd party. That's becomes real obvious if you follow such things.

 

Maybe a problem with your PATS key or too many keys on your key chain ??

 

Yes, that's a sign of low compression, but it could be something else as well. They will find out if it's @ Ford. Pretty Quick. Let us know when you do

 

Its getting dropped off this afternoon - I will pass along a few of the suggestions you guys have given me to them (doubt if they will listen, but I will tell them anyway).

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but once an engine has compression issues the only solution is to rebuild/replace it correct?

 

Yea, if that's the case, best bet is to replace with a good used engine. Those can be found on http://car-part.com/ . Type in zip and they find you one close to home.

 

Well the truck came home from the shop today. Its been there for about five days or so. He drove it repeatedly, and cranked it time and again without it ever missing a beat. He checked compression and said it was fine on all cylinders. Then checked fuel pressure, both while driving it and while cranking it - everything checks out fine. He continued to monitor fuel pressure the entire time he had it, but couldn't ever get the truck to act up when starting. It cranked the first time every time. He said its running like a top and cant find anything wrong with it.

So I drive it home from the shop this evening, stop by Lowes on the way home and turn the truck off. I immediately realized they were already closed and started the truck back up without any problem, then went to get gas where I turned it off again. After putting 3/4 of a tank of gas in it, I cranked it back up again without any issues. I got home and turned the truck off. I was working on my atv trailer (installing lights on it) for about a half hour and then decided to hook it up to my truck to test the lights. So I got in the truck to crank it up and what happens? It wont start. It cranks, but cant seem to get any gas. I try it repeatedly without any success. Two of the times it tried to stumble into starting, but couldn't quite get it. I listen for the fuel pump to run and it does. After trying it fifteen times or so I gave up and went inside. I came back out thirty minutes later and tried to crank it - it stumbled on the first try and instead of immediately dying it, it sat and stumbled for 5-10 seconds and then was fine. Running like a top just like it was supposed to. I turned it off, and tried it again - it fired right up. Tried it a third time - same result, fired right up.

So I'm thoroughly confused.

 

Yea , you and me both . - has there been any set period of time. I mean is it random, - could happen at any time?