Thanks for the reality check. I don't have intimate knowledge of the trannies in these fine Fords -- just lots of experience with other brands -- and they're not created equal (as our competitors have learned the hard way).

We (where I work -- and I'm not representing them now) talk about the trannies 'teaching the driver' -- and fortunately most are quick studies -- although we did create a driver-training machine where it has the ability to mimic a 9, 10, 13, 15, 18-speed (non-synchro) Fuller box -- complete with speedo and feedback (gear grinding) to the driver thru the shift lever and even shaking the driver's chair. Perhaps some of you Drivers out there have seen it at the Louisville or California or Texas truck shows.

Off topic, but dear to me <grin>.

Enjoy the weekend!

 

Y2K:

I'd just like to say that the shifting methods you describe, are what I found out over time are the best way to drive the 5spd f150 (I have the 97 4.6L). As for quick power shifting, it is possible to do with no grinding in 2nd or 3rd, just takes the right feel for it after time, and not to do it lightning fast. I've felt that there are certain rpms that the gears were designed for, so that no gears become blocked.

You're absolutely right, I can shift my 99 honda accord as quick as possible without the slightest roughess.

Would anyone say there is a quick fix around? Replacing synchros -- I don't believe a new transmission is the answer.
If there is no real fix, I believe after
getting the feel for the clutch, and the
gears, and the synchros, you'll find any
roughness, tightness, or blocked gears to
go away and hardly see them again.

------------------
97F150 XLT SC 4x4 Flairside 4.6 V8 5sp Dk Toreador Red, 3.55LS
ARE tonneau cover, p255/70rx16 tires (came w/235), Superchip
Pioneer CD w/4 Polk Speakers, skid plates
bed liner, side window deflectors, reese hitch, K&N air filter
40s-2chamber Flowmaster, Bosch +4 spark plugs, rustproofing
Better Built Stainless nerf bars
heavy duty shocks

 

Haven't had any problems going into 1st, but getting an occassional grind while shiftig into 3rd. Have to wait a couple of seconds after pushing the clutch in before shifting, why does this happen in 3rd gear only??

------------------
-------------------
2000 XL Flareside
V6, 5 Speed, 3.55
K&N Air Filter

 

Most likely because the clutching action of the synchro is not sufficient to quickly change the speed of the clutch to that speed of the gear you chose.

Remember that the purpose of the synchro is to grab onto the chosen gear (two conical survaces of different speeds mate) and by way of friction bring the clutch to a speed which is perfectly-matched with that of the gear that you chose -- and when the two parts of the cones are at the right (same) speed, the slider is allowed to continue to slide past the synchro (which has teeth -- more like cogs) and that slider then meshes with the cogs of the gear which has the second half of the cone where the synchro is mating.

Two things can happen:

1) the leverage of the shifter is so great that you are actually able to move the slider past the cogs of the synchro before the other gear's speed is mated to the slider -- in which case there is no longer any force against the synchro -- and it is then up to the slider to mate with the cogs of the other gear (which is still travelling at a different -- non-synchronized -- speed) -- and the result is the grating of the slider against the cogs of the target gear (third, in your case).

2) the lubricating effect of the gear lubricant can be so slippery that the synchro is innefective (for the time that you've given it to mate -- synchronize -- the gear speeds), or

3) the synchro can lose it's shape -- which would then not allow enough friction. This latter case can be due to 'spongy' material which won't hold it's conical shape and actually spreads around the cone of the mating gear without matching the speeds -- or it can simply be due to the fact that the synchro's wear area has worn down.

A synchro is a clutch. It's purpose is two-fold:

a) it is designed with tapered cogs which are supposed to momentarily prevent the slider (moved by your fork) from sliding over the synchro until

b) the synchro (by way of it's cone-shaped mating with the target gear) matches (aka synchronizes) the speed of the target gear with that of the slider (which is going the same speed as the driven gear -- in your case: the output shaft).

The gears used for First, Second, Third, and Fourth are all connected to the input shaft -- and all are turning at different speeds. The input shaft resists rapid change in speed due to the stored energy in those gears and especially the clutch disc.

The reason that taking a long time (waiting) to make the gear change is easy is due to the fact that it takes a while for the clutch to spin down by itself. Your synchro is designed to lessen that time (on a up-shift) by the friction of the synchro against the next gear in addition to normal churning resistance of the gears in the oil.

I probably reached the 'fog-factor' several paragraphs ago -- and will leave it where it is and try to respond to any other specific question that may get posed.

'Hope this helped.

 

It makes perfect sense, thanks..

------------------
-------------------
2000 XL Flareside
V6, 5 Speed, 3.55
K&N Air Filter

 

I think I've got some interesting info. in regards to the grinding upshift from 2nd to 3rd. I couldn't pinpoint what would cause it, but I think I've got the pattern. It would consistently grind into thrid after a road trip, 30 or more min. of highway ride, or after pulling my boat(the boats 17ft., no way it could damage the tranny). I tested this on a two hour road trip. I double-checked that it WOULDN'T happen before the trip or after cool down of the tranny after arrival, but as soon as I got off the exit it started doing it. It did this on the way there and after returning from the trip.

------------------
2000 Black F-150XL,Ext. Cab, 4.2L, 5Spd, Flowmaster, K&N Air

 

Y2K 7700 4x4 is apparently correct about the transmission fluid becoming too 'slick' to let the synchronisers do their job. In the case of my truck, changing the fluid when it smells 'burnt' (about 3 to 4 thousand miles) makes the shifter feel like it's attached to a 'normal Ford' transmission. After having a sample tested, I was told that the friction modifiers in the fluid had failed due to running at too high a temperature. Hope some one can come up with a really high temperature tolerant fluid. Or a transmission fluid pump that can handle the temp and contaminates in the fluid. Just a thought,

------------------
Hutch
'99 F150 4x4 5spd Manual V6

 

Let me know when you've invented one, slick. Should go hand in hand with a metric crescent wrench.

 

I'll agree that just about any grinding is most likely to happen after you've been driving for a while.

Anyone use a synthetic and has never had the slightest problem?

------------------
97F150 XLT SC 4x4 Flairside 4.6 V8 5sp Dk Toreador Red, 3.55LS
ARE tonneau cover, p255/70rx16 tires (came w/235), Superchip
Pioneer CD w/4 Polk Speakers, skid plates
bed liner, side window deflectors, reese hitch, K&N air filter
40s-2chamber Flowmaster, Bosch +4 spark plugs, rustproofing
Better Built Stainless nerf bars
heavy duty shocks

 

*** Please Reply to topic titled "5 spd whine on steep grades. ***

----------

I just wanted to jump in and say that my 97 4.2 5sp w/ 68000 mi. shifts fine, etc. w/ no grinding. But I have had a problem latley with it making noise in 3rd or 4th gears while pulling steep grades at high RPM's. The noise isn't extremely loud like its gonna fall apart or something, but it is more of a loud "whine". Would changing fluid help this? If so, what's the best kind? I don't want to risk sacrificing my smooth shifting to get rid of this noise.

David



[This message has been edited by dcd (edited 09-11-2000).]

 

No problems here from a 17 year old. Yall know how we are stereo-typed to drive.

------------------
'97 F-150 XLT Clearcoat Red
4x2
4x4 wheels
Stepside, K&N, bedliner
32inch tires,flowmaster
tint, matching ford sticker
5spd fully loaded, hidden hitch
Comming soon:
spark plugs/wires,leveling kit,toolbox,
bed rails,push bar, CB with whiplash,
clear corner lenses,brush guard, blackouts,
edlebrock shocks, hypertech, K&N induction system,KC highlighters,
bed xtender, BOSE audio or infinity gold, disc changer,
side steps, dixie horn, white faaced gauges, and those small fender flares some 4x4's have,
matching boddy color of course, and some of those door guards,ventshade visors, power pulleys, that is all
i can think of right now

 

OK kilroy, I'll bite. How, using the existing fill & drain fittings on the 5-speed manual transmission, without a pump, can the fluid be circulated from the transmission through a cooler and back to the transmission? Thermo-siphon won't work due to line routing considerations (creating a heat trap), having to overfill the transmission to provide the air-free environment required for the siphon effect, and inadequate flow rate through currently manufactured off the shelf coolers.

------------------
Hutch
'99 F150 4x4 5spd Manual V6

 

my truck has the hard shift into 1st.If I am going less than 5mph no problem at all.I think these trannys are a little tougher than you think.I accidentally downshifted from 5th to 2nd in my 98 at 50mph(I had a custom gearshift **** and thought it was 4th)and it took it. almost red lined the motor but everything was ok.Needless to I am not puitting a custom **** on my y2k.

------------------
JET air filter
delta tool box
pumpin' stereo
class III reciever hitch
spray in bedliner
headlight covers
custom painted taillight covers
cranked torsion bars 2000 black F150 4x4 sport v-6
-----------------------

lightningcrashz@hotmail.com

 

WTF ARE YOU SMOKING?!!! As soon as you can locate a pump or a cooler on a manual transmission, be sure and let us know, dumbass.

 

Have to bring this one back up.

Except for a few unfortunate souls, this thread has some of the best info I have ever read here at F150online.

And here I was thinking I was the only unlucky SOB to have the 2nd to 3rd grind after driving on the highway at least 30 minutes.

I would like to thank Y2K 7700 for his shared knowledge too.
Afetr reading your post I feel like I know my tranny a little better.
Thanks!

------------------
Roger In DFW.
Home of the 1999 Stanley Cup Champion ****Dallas Stars****
99 F-150 Sport XL "Bright" Red 4.2L
L Wheels-Michi Pilots. Flowmaster 50. Sport Masters Tonneau

00 X Sport. "Laser" Red 5.4L

Waag Brush Guard. Roush Racing "Dual Oval" Chrome Tip!