Hey Scully,

GOP bashing?? Living in a decidedly "red" state, I can tell you that the GOP has the market cornered on "bashing" of the other side. You should hear the talk at work today. We're one step away from folks building bomb shelters and panic rooms! Good grief.

Considering ol' Frank doesn't "miss" much (especially when it comes to politics with Jack! ), I figgered he was just being tight-lipped about it. You know...like Romney has been about some of the facets of his "tax plan"? That was the primary point of that comment. I apologize if it was missed, and my apologies to Frank for assuming anything other than he just missed it.

And I'm well aware of how long the age-old philosophy of "do more with less" has been around. Again, my point wasn't that it started with Bush, but rather that it did NOT start with Obama. Again, I apologize for the point not being clear enough...or maybe a little too facetious.



Or, if you're in Washington state or Colorado,

 

And to counter Jack, I for one am tired of free loaders. I think a lot of voters for Obama want collective care and benefits. Not all but there are many and I shouldn't be paying for programs that probably won't exist when I retire. I'm 21 and a half. I think about my future and unlike many of the people in my generation and before, I'm going to save for my retirement now. Depending on the government to that degree is absurd. We should be able to opt out of social security. http://www.ssa.gov/history/stool.html

 

Jack - sounds like you are saying stagecraft and racial politics are the keys to the White House.

And you are right. That says alot about the state of the country, and most of it is not good.

I guess some of us thought this election was about other issues, but we were proven wrong.

 

Steve, I may have missed it (won't be the first time), but all I know about Frank is that he is a "contractor" and lives somewhere in Georgia.

I had asked him specifically what "kind" of contracting he was in, since that is such a broad field, and never got an answer.

So, for all I know, he's a defense contractor, a plumbing contractor, a healthcare contractor, an electrical contractor, a home construction contractor, a landscaping contractor, etc. Each of these has somewhat different attributes and some may be the reason he is so fearful of another four years under President Obama. It wasn't that I was being nosy (no more than usual anyway), but I was really trying to understand his situation.

- Jack

 

Stagecraft, CERTAINLY! Racial politics, not so much. But, if you really think about the position the GOP is taking, I think you'd have to concede they are not giving much consideration to the needs and opinions of the "minorities". But, to be a government for all, these factors MUST be a consideration.

One thing I am grateful for, big money from outside groups (Koch brothers, Karl Rove, etc.,) is still not "buying" the presidency. How much longer that will be, I don't know, but at least it didn't happen this time.

And, I have never advocated handouts for freeloaders. But to call everyone in need a freeloader is not right either. In my opinion, GM and Chrysler (and their workers) were not freeloaders, but they needed a bit of help (as all of us do at times). To turn our backs on them is simply not in the traditions of this Country.

- Jack

 

There's so many lies and misconceptions in your post it's troubling. There are no "social processes that are designed to maintain that privileged position." If that were the case, how could someone like me start with almost nothing and work to where I wanted to be? Talk about a straw-man argument. The problem is there are too many people that want something for nothing. There is no denying this fact. You really need to take an HONEST look at the demographics of the democratic party and you will see this.

What I noticed was obama won the young and inexperienced voters who are the voters who are leeching off society instead of contributing to it, yet. And "yet" is the key word. Whether that be by choice or because they aren't out of college yet and earning real wages. In fact, talk to many of those people you saw in Chicago in 10-15 years and they will be republicans. I have several friends that were liberal democrats in their teens and twenties that are no longer. The vast majority of the crowd in the most corrupt city in America (Chicago) was well under 35 years old with a few older folks sprinkled in. Think about it, you have to be at least 35 years old to be president of the US. There's good reason for that.

As for the GOP "coming to grips". The only thing that needs to happen is that we need a media that is truly reporting facts as they receive them. Even just in the last week CBS quietly released more video of their interview with Obama on Benghazi. The American people were lied to by a sitting president and it's on the back burner. IF this were a republican president, he could've kissed re-election goodbye.

 

This is the problem.

A minority of us want good governance (which benefits all races, BTW).

Unfortunately, the electorate is satisfied with someone who gives good teleprompter.

I had hoped for better from my countrymen, but I will resign myself to the reality that is the 21st Century USA.

 

Were the Bush years good governance?

 

Frank,

You speak of all these handouts. The Obamaphone you speak of was on Bush's watch, the unpaid for Medicare Part D was Bush, trillions to war contractors like Halliburton and Blackwater, etc.

You can't just pull out of areas once you are there. It has to be wound sown responsibly. I would love to be out of there but it is easier said than done.

If you are referring to handouts to PBS, I don't think that is going to make a bit of difference.

Cuts have to be big to make a difference. War, Social Security, and Medicare make up the bulk of spending. If you are going to cut spending and taxes at the same time and lower the debt then what are you going to cut?

 

Obama vastly expanded the bushphone/obamaphone program. Bush is no longer president. Besides, the bushphone/obmaphone program is a drop in the bucket compared to obamacare. The phone program is nothing more than another attempt at vote purchasing.

The rest of this budgetary discussion is moot with you since you fail to take an honest look at where the money actually goes. Let's put it this way: Now that the gov't has control of 1/6 of the economy (healthcare), you'll see the dollar continue to decline in value and your buying power decline even more rapidly in the coming years. The money just isn't there.

I'm glad I invested heavily in gold from 2004-2006.

 

Bush was a big factor again for Dem voters this year, despite not being on a ballot since 2004.

Surely the 'All Bush's Fault' syndrome will continue for another 8 years or so. Deflect blame. Accept no responsibility. That's leadership for you.

IMO, Bush spent far too much money to provide good governance. His shortcomings were magnified in 2006, when the House went Dem.

While Bush fell far short of my standards for good governance, he was considerably better at it than Obama, IMO. If Obama were held to the same standards as Bush, millions more would agree. But Bush has an (R) behind his name. That's all it takes.

 

Correct, do more with less did not start with Obama.

Having to cover an additional cost mandated by the government did start with Obama ( and the 111th congress = majority Dem ).
- do more ( and a bit more in addition to that more ) with less.

Frank notes an expense item going up 30%, which means what to the business owner ?
1. Get the employees productivity increased more yet to cover this.
2. Adjust the business so the expense is not incurred.

#2 is what the small business owner of where my mom works did.

Frank does not want to do this, but he is left with no choice.
- Either get under the requirements or raise his prices so he can cover it ( which could mean less people use his company and he downsizes the business due to lack of work ).

 

Please give the complete story, not just the talking points from the MSM ( the one you claim is not liberal ).

The subsidy for phones started in 1996.
- Who was president back then ? Let me think..... I know this one.....

You like to kick the medicare Part D as being unpaid.
-> Compare that to the Health Care Law not being paid for.

Large companies found out rather than pay into the program to fund it, they could pay the fine and remove the health care part of their employees ( the majority of who were union ).
Along comes the waiver program, and look at all the unions signing up for them.

Did you develop a complaint about that, or do you still stick by something is better than nothing as you did back in 2009 / 2010 ?
- Strange how a GOP program made to help people gets nothing but ridicule from you, but a Dem program ( in the same shape ) gets the better than nothing nod.

 

George Soros and his pals I am sure contributed quite a bit to the Obama campaign. Don't fool yourself to think democrats are any better than republicans on such things. For the record, I am a Ron Paul supporter.

 

The same can be said for at least 90% of the "Rs" I know. If someone has a (D) behind their name, that's all it takes.

*Sigh* So what's the alternative, then. Give the "rich" tax breaks and place even more of the tax burden on the working, middle-class? I'm guessing working, middle-class will get it back because the "rich" (business owners, etc) will take these tax breaks and, out of the goodness of their hearts, "trickle it down" to their employees, right? Suuuure.

Before 2000, I worked all year, paid my taxes, and at the end of the year, I'd get a little tax money back. Between 2000 and 2008, I worked all year, paid my taxes, and had to pay even more at the end of every year. Since 2008, I've worked all year, paid my taxes, and at the end of the year, I've gotten a little tax money back again.

What changed?

Let's say Frank is a subcontractor in the building trade. Having been in and around this business my entire life, I'm sure what is happening in Georgia with that market is quite like what's happening here. Compared to say the 90s and the early 2000s, it's non-existent.

So, the real problem isn't as much with profit margins. It's with the lack of work. Trust me, I, of all people get that. So, what happened to cause this lack of work?

Looky what happened with the deficit by the end of his Presidency.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Of course, that was probably because of what Bush Sr. did...or even Reagan!

You're a braver soul than me! I ain't tellin' NOBODY who I support!


BTW, you might not think so, but I love y'all anyway. No homo.