suggestion....

quit running iridium till you figure out the problem...


question... are you running a KB boost-a-SPARK?

 

No, no Boost a spark

WOW
A LOT more great info, Thanks ALL
Rocks, you are on the money, Actually everyone is, I think it's a combination of a few things Denny, Dale, and Sonic touched on too
(and Doug with his timing theory too ; o )

1- Yes I have inserts, and YES they have already proved to be an issue
(or heat has proved to be an issue in melting them)
On the first plug melt down at 500 miles, both of those plugs came out with the inserts still attached to them, both inserts were partially melted too.
I think I only have one bad pic of one of them



God knows what they all look like now @(&^$%@($%@($@%$(@%$(@$%$

NOTE TO SELF, HOW THE HELL AM I GOING TO SELL THIS L TO ONE OF THESE PEOPLE IF I KEEP TELLING THEM WHATS WRONG
I can see the add now, 02 L never raced, driving by a non smoking old man to Church on Sundays, ah ha ha ha .....

But the MONEY (or problem) I am now 100% convinced is the injectors
OR a better way to put it is, "the flow these injectors have".
Do you know what I found out this morning by doing intense reading on the net. (Tim you'd be proud of me, I actually used the search button ; o )

I found out 50lb Injectors ARE ONLY 30LB INJECTORS AT THE FACTORY SETTING OF 39 PSI "DELTA" Fuel Pressure
I'm learning all about DELTA Pressure today, and that I believe is where my problem lies, woo hoo
OR SOMETHING ???

Example:

The Seimens “55#” injectors theoretically should have supported ~ 750 engine hp (55x.85x8x2) at .5 BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) if they delivered this much fuel at 39 psi delta, but they do not. We HAD to run the delta psi (nozzle tip) up to 65 to deliver enough fuel for this injector to make 620 rwhp. The horsepower calculations would be about right if you used a factor of .86 for the conversion of rwhp to ehp (620/.86=721).

This Seimens injector doesn’t deliver 55 lbs/hr static flow until 55 psi delta, so unless you can change the delta pressure in the chip, you’re stuck with a 46.7 lb/hr “55#” injector. Since injectors can only run an 85% duty cycle, now multiply the 46.7 rating by .85 and you have a “39.7#” injector! That translates into only being able to support ~ 635 ehp, or 546 rwhp if you run it at 39 psi delta!

So if a 55 ='s 39.7 lb Injector
I can only assume the 50's are @ 30 (only had general math 9, sorry, hehehe)
UNLESS WE INCREASE THE FUEL PRESSURE
That is where I must start, I pray Sal gets back to me and he can help me with this task, cause I'd like to do it today if possible (I have off this week)

In the mean time, maybe I should go back to the NGK's, they seem to at least not melt as bad. But got dam they idle like crap @$%)(@$%)(@$%@)$
Why doesnt NGK make a plug that idles well ??? @$^@$@$
But I guess at this point, idle should be my least concern........

Thanks ALL

 

I think one of the best idea's would be to first......

Install , even if it's temporary, a fuel pressure guage. Have Sal strap it to the dyno and simulate real world driving while monitoring the fuel pressure. Then give it a few romps to see how it responds. Then give it some wot stops like a dyno pull and see what it looks like.

Did you change the fuel pump relay yet??? If it's sticking or delayed.......it could cause a problem.

If everything on that end works out, it has to be either a bad regulator or injectors.

If your a/f on the dyno pulls looks ok, then it can't be a big picture problem.

Is it possible that there could be some sort of contaminent or debris inside the fuel rail that is floating around and randomly obstructing flow to the injectors. I know it sound f'n crazy but when you get to this point, you start thinking of **** like this as possible answers.

Good luck man, I feel your pain. I'd be carefull though because the rate it's killing plugs , you have a shot of damaging the motor everytime it happens.

 

Rob
U should maybe contact Jim Kalfakis. He has this 3M fuel cleaning thing that flushes the entire fuel system through the Schrader valve and he does not live that far from you. I was going to do it on my last Lightning. I bought the bottle but never made it out to his out to use the attachment. The bottle has been laying around for over a year and you are welcome to have it. I do not think it can hurt, you may have a clog and this will clean it out.

 

ROb,

What about the Fuel Rails?
Also, you may want to talk to Suavy about his Fuel delivery system.


That Insert, looks like it was arching from the plug and melted.

 

We know we had a problem with the Plasma Booster and your plugs, but that's been rectified.

You don't have a fuel "delivery" issue, as in rails, pumps, pressure, etc. A/F on is right on the money as you've seen many times on the dyno. No signs of pressure loss or drop off.

I told you from day one that the 50s were junk and that people have had lots of problems with them in the past being inconsistant. Your problem is exactly why. We need to get them out of there.

Also, we all saw your post about the nuclear nitrous bottle pressure. Question... did you run the truck like that? If your bottle pressure was over 1100 when you ran the truck then you were running leaner than you should have been.

And what do I keep telling you before every race you go to? DON'T use the nitrous until we can dyno it. Let's make sure the truck makes it through a weekend of racing off spray first. The past two races you've gone to, you've sprayed it and come home with burned plugs.

We'll get it fixed, but first step is to get those 50s out of there.

 

whelp... There's your answer!

 

^ Bingo!

 

Sal, I DID NOT SPRAY IT
I was only thinking about Spraying it,
so JUST IN CASE Gator pulled next to me or something, I opened the bottle
and then, well you know the rest

Your the tuner and I WILL NOT doubt your expertise, but lets not forget only once did a plug go out while using n20, the other 5 sets, or total of about 9 plugs were ALL from around town or Dyno WOT, and thats only for maybe 4 sec blast.

DO YOU HAVE 60's in stock ? (if you do let me know and I'll drop the L off)
If not PLEASE ORDER THEM TODAY, and lets get this BS behind us while we still have a motor to work with, because if it blows it is not getting fixed, and I dont want my L to go bye bye........

THANKS
AND SORRY I DIDNT LISTEN TO YOU, you warned me about this day one......

 

Extreme nitrous bottle pressure would not cause a lean-out but the total opposite. When pressures get near what Rob's did 1500+ psi the nitrous just converts back to a gas almost instantly when leaving the bottle which has next to nothing for oxygen content. Now you are adding all this fuel to support X amount of power but no oxygen to burn it and the motor will run super rich.

 

just thinking about it a bit
if you didnt want to pull the injectors and make sure that is deff the problem (but i agree it is them)
pull off your 8 pounder and bolt the stock lower back on and tune it for that if your not burning plugs its deff the injectors cause it cant handle the pressure
and you are right on about researching the injectors
but do you know that a 42 will flow 42 with no boost but when you start adding boost you are adding pressure against the fuel and its effectiveness goes down with every lb of boost
this is what i read and not what i know just what i understand to be true

 

I may have to try less boost

One last question Sal

Why dont we see it going lean on the Dyno Graph, or while Data Logging it ???
With a AF so perfect, flat and safe, why does it burn plugs if you go WOT for more than a sec or two ??? What good is all that data if it's not REALLY seeing whats going on, (WE KNOW IT'S GOING LEAN;plugs are always green, cooked, and burnt) I DONT UNDERSTAND THAT AT ALL......

 

Rob, if you need them I will have a set of 55's coming out of my truck shortly. Installing 60's with my nitrous kit.
I also have a set of good used coil packs around as well. I would really look into the injectors personally.
-Mat-
svt_f150@sbcglobal.net

 

Do you have access to a bore scope? I'd take a look at number one to see if there's anything in the chamber or on the face of the piston to cause a hot spot...

And use a set of flow matched injectors!!!

 

Rob,
talk to Wydopnthrtl about datalogging.

He has an autotap, that he used on my truck for about 15 runs. Some from a dead stop, others from 2nd gear-100mph.

THe dyno will get you close, but real world driving will most likely give SAL a better picture of what's happening in the real world driving.

Maybe it's something non-related. who knows?