Maybe he bought it from JLP,PSP or JDM>???

 

Maybe he bought it from JLP,PSP or JDM>???

LOL

 

I changed some things and was able to get rid of it

No problem robert,i'm glad you got your stumble fixed also..Why is it such a big secret? I got an e-mail from clint making fun of me trying to get him to share the tuning issue FIX with everyone.I guess thats helping everyone out right? Oh well thats the way it goes..

For those who want to know the fix for the stumble when you install cams/heads ect.
its in the mass air transfer functions! Just go to around 1.1 volts to about 2.4 volts and add around 18% ,also go to the timing tables and make a change to the negative numbers, changing them to all positive like 10*, also in the functions under ecclerator enrichment add a little fuel from 650 rpm's to 800! If this doesn't do the trick then i'll eat my hat!... hmmm i wonder how i knew that? You see its no big secret! Its funny tho, how when someone finds out something they think no one else knows or might help them to possible get a handle on something,they hide it to themselves! I know of 2 people who had this issue out of the hundreds ive sold engines too. If their are others i'm not aware of it..If their are others just call me or e-mail me about the issue and we'll try to get it resolved for you..I hope this information will help ALL who may be having this issue...JL

 

Thanks JL...

 

Thanks JL.

Hope this helps not only you jeff,but many others also! You know what bugs me, you have these guys who want you to e-mail them tunes just so they can have somebody read them and take what some of us have had to work very hard for! Now all of a sudden their the Super Tuner.then when they think they found something that no body has.they show forth their true colors!everything is a Secret! LOL! Thats why i'm very cautious to what i e-mail and to whom..Trust me you find out quick in this buisness who your TRUE Freinds are and those who are all for themselves!..Dog Eat Dog World Brother!....JL

 

Thanks JL, for the keeper info. I agree with you on all the cloak and dagger. But what I really thought might be happening there is that the original poster had no clue about how to fix it. I bet he still has no clue what you just said to do....

It was starting to remind me of Kindgarten....maybe you remember the game too. "I know, but I'm not telling anyone" ...LOL....sure you do....sure you do .


Anyway....thanks....I may have a situation I can use that info for.


Rocks

 

I can't believe you consider yourself to be some pioneer in this industry and yet you take petty shots at customers, customers who bought THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR motors from you. You, as a tuner, are held to a higher level then the average poster on this board. To come on here in the manner you do simply makes me wonder how it is that you get through everyday without a heartattack or pissing match with vendors/customers. And who cares if only 2 people out of hundreds had this problem. That's like Jim Bell saying it's acceptable that 44 KB's locked up. I own United Airlines, only two of my planes have crashed out of the hundreds we have, hell, I'll print that on every ticket, it'll be great marketing.

Just another example of why you will never see one solitary dime of my money ever again. Of course this is probably where you tell me that's okay because you've sold x number of motors and x number of air boxes. It's a mystery to me why anyone would want to deal with you. I've NEVER seen you reply with any sort of technical data/expertise on this board, yet you claim to have all the answers. Finally you tell us something was wrong with his MAF Xfer function, like you knew all along, but weren't you the one who was sending him all his previous tunes? If that was they case, in your infinite wisdom why didn't you solve the problem months ago? One reply that comes to mind is when you told ByByBird it was normal that his truck spikes to 17:1 between shifts because the motor doesn't have resistance. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

How you manage to keep customers is beyond me.

 

How you manage to keep customers is beyond me

You met 1 of my customers last week @ Capitol race way, Why didn't you ask him when you were over their droowling over his truck? He told me what you said and you were right!.. i don't know maybe him running mid 10's on a less to be desired track might have something to do with JLP Keeping him as a customer.. Do I detect a little Jelously? Did you ever find out what that Ticking noise was in your engine? My guess was piston slap from a LEAN Condition. but of course i'm probably wrong....JL

 

Timing chain tensioner and guide. If you read the thread you would see that I said it was coming from the front of the motor and I'd ran a stethescope around to find the noise and it WASN'T around the heads or cylinders. So yea, piston slap, GENIOUS, pure genious. How exactly do you diagnose a ticking via the internet? Wow, you really do think you're a god. Why would I have a lean condition, what do you know about my truck? Nothing.

I was not drooling (droowling??) over your customer's truck. It's not my style, but I could tell he took alot of pride in it. I told him it was a nice truck and when he asked what I thought of JLP I told him I don't like you, I've never met you, and I've never dealt with you because of the way you come across. I didn't berate your business or anything of the sort.

Just because I think you are an arrogant jackass doesn't mean that your customers aren't nice people. Where they choose to spend their money is their business. But as I stated, you'll never see a dime of my money.

And again, someone disagrees with you and you start right in with personal shots about me and my truck. How about I take some personal shots at your truck? Nevermind, spending all that money to backhalf your truck and then going 1 tenth faster is enough punishment.

 

JL,

Can you answer some questions for me?

First, when you tune the fueling of a vehicle, specifically say for the OL portion of the tuning, do you datalog the measured output of the MAF versus AFR, in order to calculate difference ratios, from the commanded AFR versus the measured AFR, to apply to the individual airflow values of the MAF transfer, so that your commanded AFR now becomes actual AFR? Or do you instead just tune the AFR strictly through the OL fuel table, from which commanded AFR can never be actual AFR?

Second, what about for closed loop tuning? Do you map out the MAF transfer via a datalog of the measured output of the MAF versus the STFT values, in order to calculate and apply difference ratios to the individual airflow values of the MAF transfer, so that the STFT values are attempting to achieve within +/- 5% of stoichiometric? Or do you instead not even calibrate these areas of the MAF transfer?

The MAF transfer function is the most critical sensor on the vehicle, and it must always be properly calibrated throughout the entire curve, and this is why I ask these questions. There are 30 points to a MAF transfer. Each of these points account for the actual voltage output of the MAF transfer, expressed either in volts, or A/D counts, which represents voltage digitally. Furthermore, the output of the MAF transfer function is used to calculate volumetric efficiency. Without VE being correct, the pcm will not use the correct spark and fuel values given from their respected tables, thus possibly resulting in an extremely dangerous situation.

Okay, I guess you already have somewhat answered my questions above. Some points to expound on here:

- MAF tweaking: However easy one may wish such to be, you can't logically tell anyone to do this. In person, one does not tune the MAF transfer without datalogging. Not only is 18% an extreme amount of fuel (you're shifting the entire fuel curve in those MAF voltage ranges by that amount), but on top of just "guessing", you would be throwing off VE. Just blindly adding fuel is not the answer to the issues that are being discussed.

- Spark: Changing all the negative values to positive values is definitely not even remotely correct or ideal. One should never tune a spark curve in this fashion. There is a proper curve to follow, and it's right under one's nose in every calibration that Ford develops on an engine dyno. I'll leave this particular point at this.

- Accelerator Enrichment: It should remain at 1 (which represents no change). One should never touch this table, otherwise they are only bandaiding the issue.

All in all, provided the engine is working in proper condition, if the MAF is not saturating, and the fuel system is able to supply the necessary demand, all of the fueling issues should/will fall into place once one properly tunes the MAF transfer (on top of all the other necessary standard parameter modifications).

 

yes i agree you should data log the runs to be 100% correct.but iwas just simply pointing everybody in the right direction.(This is what works for us) if you feel this is incorrect for your way of tuning,then ok. Explain to everybody exactly how you choose to fix this stumble problem...JL

 

i wouldnt let you tune my lawnmower much less my horse cart

 

WTB tune for my lawnmower!

 

JL, seemingly that you basically completely avoided my above questions, I'll ask you again what I feel is most important:

Do you attempt to tune the AFR strictly through the OL fuel table, from which commanded AFR can never be actual AFR?

Would supplying screenshots of your OL fuel and MAF tables, of multiple tunes you've done, answer that question?

Thank you in advance for your insight on this matter.

 

My truck is tuned to run open loop all the time. It will run okay in closed loop but is smoother at idle and in general runs better when I can have it run open loop and determine for myself what A/F I want to run for different maf values and loads. For example, mine runs much better and makes at least 1" more vacuum if it idles at about 14:1 A/F instead of 14.6:1.

As far as tuning I do all my fuel tuning through the maf transfer. I datalog my A/F along with several other parameters including maf counts, rpm, load, timing, IAT1/2, etc. If I want 14.6: 1 at cruise and I'm getting 15:1 I divide where I am by where I want to be (15 divided by 14.6) and come up with 1.027. I then apply that change to the maf transfer at the point those numbers occur and then blend the curve in. I do that from idle to WOT top gear and the truck runs smooth as silk.

I am not a professional tuner although I have a fair amount of experience tuning with the aftermarket EFI systems on several vehicles. The maf transfer is the most important thing to get correct in my opinion.

Jody