I dont think I agree with that at all. Usually its the "LITTLE" people that bring alot to the table. Thats how big things get started. PSP, JLP, JDM, & REM did not get started by buying spots in magazines they went out and "PROVED THEMSELVES" and the product they offer.

Personally, I think KB should step up to the plate. This is a real test from a person that has neither of the two, just wants the real facts. Both blowers could be installed at the shop, tested and returned, or taken back by the WORKS or KB rep on site.

He has formally made a offer, its no different than someone saying, Hey LIGHTNING SHOOTOUT AT CECIL!! Heads up fastest truck wins and becomes TOP DOG!!

I praise you for trying so hard Marcus. I hope this happens. There is no reason it sholdnt unless people are just to scared to see the results.

One little test could prove alot.... One "COULD" be better than the other, They could be "SO CLOSE" it comes down to personal prefferance. Lastly, Only one of the Blower Vendors has said yes and if the other dosent, THAT WILL LOOK BAD IMO!

 

Cool, thanks for keeping the civilized...not trying to be difficult, just playing devils advocate.
Also, I can't understand your post. Do you mean that you think a stock bottom end will take 25psi? I can gaurantee you that a stock bottom end will not take 25psi very long. All things things being perfect, it will last for a while. But the first time any issue develops(and it will), fuel starvation due to low fuel, bad gas, drastic change in weather...your motor will blow. At 25psi you are darn near 700hp at the crank, almost double what Ford intended.

 

mod squad here, when you get that cage are you going to list it in your sig with your other mods?

 

We are talking about blower manufacturers who have already developed proven products. That's my point, it has nothing to do with JLP and PSP, they are distributing a product. That's like calling Jegs and Summit for a drag radial shootout. JLP and PSP have already proven their products and so has KB. Now it's time to see how well everyone makes the products work on their trucks. We've been through this dyno crap before...you can change parameters, tunes, etc. and gain or lose 25-50hp at the drop of a hat. The real test is how you lay it down at the track. Big numbers will be had by all that strap on an aftermarket blower. What if one makes 25hp more than the other? Is it gonna matter? Just crank up the boost more. The limit will be the motors not the blowers. Do you think a stock Lightning block w/ built internals will handle 30psi of boost w/ a big shot of juice...not for long..1000hp is a lot for these trucks to handle.

 

While you guys are trying to get the impossible done, call up Dodge and Ford so they can do a 1/4th mile shootout with their '04 Ram SRT-10 against an '03 Lightning...
Or call up REM, JL, JDM, and PSP and have them meet at a dyno facility with their equipment and see who can get a stock lightning to get the best dyno and 1/4th mile #'s.
It is not going to happen and neither is this test between KB and Works blowers. It is obvious that many people have already ordered what they think is better for them. In a few months you will see the results. Those who have choosen to wait and see will be better informed than those who have already placed orders.

 

I dont think much has been proven at all.

These types of tests happen all the time, people get together and do some real testing. I guess if KB dont want to do it, someone will just buy both and do real testing for all of us.

Turning the boost up is not a option. The test is for both blowers at the Same Boost, on the same truck, with the same person tuning them, within HOURS of each dyno. True more power could be had if PSP or JLP was TWEAKING the trucks to their specs. I think it would be easy for anyone to see why this should happen.

I see it like this right now.....

WORKS Trucks
Many have been riding around testing the blower for over 10,000 miles.
There is one truck with over 70,000 on it, and 20,000 of it is with the 140.
All of the dyno charts for the works have looked great and made some serious power.
The ones that have been to the track layed good numbers down
The 112 and some NOS is the fastest Lightning through the 1/4 Mile right now.
Most of the test trucks are on STOCK bottom end trucks.
Most of these trucks are running around 15-16lbs of boost.
One Known WORKS failure, reason unknown.


KB Trucks
I know of a few JLP trucks with the KB.
Many have Dynoed with great power.
Most of the trucks with the KB run very well through the 1/4 mile
JLP has the fastest Non-NOS truck through the 1/4 with a KB on it right now
Most of the trucks testing the KB are built up trucks
Most of these trucks are running 17+ lbs of boost
4 Known Failures with the KB blower, reason unknown





TO me the testing there is really no help. Its not true testing in the same conditions. You have Built motor Race trucks verse you average street player.

How to make a true test of the two? Reread the first part of this post.

 

*** it!!!!! I am gonna buy a whipple 166!!!!!!!

 

You might want to add some stuff.

WORKS
Sal has had many engine problems with the works 112 last year.
The works blower which failed for unknown reason wasn't covered under warranty.

KB
JL burnt a valve last year while running a prototype KB (small) blower.
New KB was retooled after failures.

 

Uhh, would you care to elaborate on that, because I sure don't know what you're talking about.

 

Dammit, don't turn my thread into another bitch fight!!!!! If this is what it'll turn into, I'll ask Doug or Steve to lock it, if he doesn't get to it first

I'm not one to give up(not in my nature), so thank you 99 and Easter for expressing your views on KB not possibly wanting to, but until I hear it from the horses mouth, I'm going to keep trying.

I do feel the same way Rich does though. If one party has agreed to play, why not the second party? Going by your scenario, "Summit and Jegs" or "Ford and Chevy" either way, no matter what name you give it, ONE party has said yes.

I won't be getting ANY personal gain from this, and ontop of that, I run a very big risk of EITHER blower blowing my rods out. But I do want to know the, "what's what and who's who" of aftermarket superchargers.

And 99, what I meant about the 25psi thing was, two magazines ran the story on the KB blower (basically the same article). In it, they mentioned things like, "stock bottom end" and "NO chip", and "bazooka air tube". With that they reported 500+ hp. I know alot people believed that article. But you and I know that 25psi, on a non chipped, stock bottom end Lightning will blow.. and who in the hell is going to have a damn PVC pipe w/ filter hanging out the side of their hood?

I want the tests done right. The right tune, the right plugs, the right readings and measurements, and the right opinions, facts, and data given about BOTH s/c. If KB and WORKS want to take it to the drag strip. I've been known to hit up the 1/4 and do pretty damn well if I may say so. If they want to ttest it on a stock truck at low boost (me), and then on a built truck at high boost, I'm sure I can find a few built L's out here as well. It'll still be two highly un-biased tests.

 

You talked me at WFC. That is why I have all of the pictures of your truck and blower and fuel system and nitrous and tires, remember. You said that you had some engine problems. I don't remember for sure if they were related to your fuel system not getting enough fuel to the cylinders because of the supercharger or because of your nitrous or just bad parts. I do know you told me you had to remove the heads a few times.

Here are a couple of quotes I found by searching.

Sal said, "Well, I can't say it was easy. Made some changes to the truck over the winter, and was plagued with gremlins since then. Broken parts, poor traction, tuning new combo, etc.,etc." 4/27/02

"...too bad sal broke a valve spring...." taken from a PSP customer. 4/09/2002

 

You're comment was- "Sal has had many engine problems with the works 112 last year." That comment undeniably says that I had engine problems related to/because of the Works 112. You can't mean otherwise, because then your statement would have nothing to do with this blower thread.

Since I've heard lots of interesting "stories" from other vendors about my problems last year, let me clear up the air. I had a broken valve spring at the GA NMRA. That issue was resolved and was not related to the blower. I had head gasket SEALING issues with a new style of gasket I was trying, that had a secondary bore shim that kept falling out of place when the heads were placed on the motor. That issue has also been resolved and also was not blower related. My third problem, was that I was trying a custom fuel system, and since I was the first person to go with a custom rail/lines/cell setup, there were lots of bugs to be worked out. One of those bugs was a faulty aftermarket regulator, that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, giving me all sorts of fuel delivery issues for quite a while. That issue has been resolved, and was ALSO not blower related.

So since none of my "engine problems" were related to my Works 112, it's quite obvious to me that all you are doing now is grasping any piece of information that you can find, to argue your losing debates, since you never have anything nice to say anymore on this board, and can never be wrong no matter how wrong you are proven.

 

I have been wrong on several occasions. I will admit that. I have plenty of nice things to say. I like the custom hood on your truck.

I said, "Sal has had many engine problems with the works 112 last year." How do I know that all of your problems were not related to the blower? You say they aren't blower related. I say you had problems. I never said you had problems because the 112 caused them. If I had known for certain your problems stemmed from the M112 I would have said, Sal has had many problems due to the works 112.
I don't know for sure JL burned his valve because of the KB. However, I used the same basic wording with him.
I've been trying to be fair here, so just chill out.

I have had engine problems with my truck. They have been with the Roush suspension installed. The engine problems I have experienced are due to, or because of the amount of nitrous I was running.

 

LOL, I can tell you how.... He never got the truck out of the garage. The new style head gaskets leaked right when he started it back up. He didnt get to move the truck at all, it was a instalation issue.

The fuel problem had the back injectors not getting enuff fuel if I remember right. That was not due to the 112 was it? LOL

 

If you weren't sure, then you shouldn't have said anything. Or maybe you should try ASKING about an issue for once in your life, instead of jumping into heated debates with information you are not sure of.

"Sal has had many engine problems with the works 112 last year."

"Sal has had many problems due to the works 112."

As far as I'm concerned, that's the same thing. This is a blower thread, talking about quality and reliability of the different blowers, so there is no possible way for your comment to NOT be taken as I was having problems with my motor due to the blower. If that was the case, then the statement doesn't even apply to this topic.