Competition is good. I am glad there is more than one good supercharger coming on the market. For those looking to upgrade, I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I also don't think there will ever be a clear cut winner. Improvements will continue to come out of both camps. Even a year from now, there will be new models under going development. There will never be a final, ultimate answer on which one is better. If your considering buying one, go ahead, you will be happy.

 

First of all, it's *NEW* not "NEW"

secondly, such a test would likely not be viewed as fair since you are a works vendor.

So I propose this: YOU (or Sal) send ME a works and JL can send ME a KB.

I'll install each one on MY truck and dyno them and give unbiased factual results. Hell I'll even do a photo install!

how's that sound?

you all know where to find me.

later,
chris

 

1 Lightningtuner ------ 1.510, 10.48 @ 131.80 (01, Red) CFLUTWDSEAKVGHBONZ
2 Jim@JDM ------------ 1.547, 10.590 @ 127.50 (01, Black) CFLUTWDSEKVRN
3 JohnnyLightning ---- 1.460, 10.590 @ 125.40 (01, Black) CFLUWPDSEAKVIHBORZ


As much as I love technical information about any performance item that I am thinking about purchasing, I cant deny the fact that the above list includes 2 Lightnings that run Nitrous and one that runs no Nitrous, and it seems to me that the Nitrous trucks should be out in front by more than they are, so the KB must be doing something right huh?

again, I am not doubting the ability of the works, just giving another opinion.

Anybody ever think what would happen if JL were to spray it with a nice 100 shot??

Personally I give JL lots of credit for being as quick as he is without having to use Nitrous, take the Nitrous off the other two trucks in the above list and there would only be one member to the 10 second club. JMHO

 

I give all three tuners a lot of credit.

But lets not forget about weight

From the Lihjtning Shootout

JL-4325
JDM-4680
PSP-4760

Over a 300# difference.

This is like comparing apples to tuna fish. There is WAY to many variables . Like suspension, those 60 fts have a lot to do with it ,amount of spray used (the only people that know that are the tuners), etc.....

It will not just be the blower that will prevail. It will be the better overall racer.IMHO


VINNIE

 

The 60' time has as much to do with torque off the line as it does with suspension. There wasn't much magic in the suspensions last year. Shocks, traction bars, and a good set of slicks is about all it took w/ all the power. The 300lb difference means a lot less with all the torque and power these trucks are making. It definitely doesn't follow the 1 tenth for every 100lb rule when you are dealing with almost 5000lb trucks.

 

I am gonna one up everyone. I am gonna run both blowers! One on top of the other. And a 500 shot of nitous. Then you all will see how is NUMBER 1. Team Mat. Yeah that's what I thought. Everyone will see my taillights. Oh yeah I am gonna run full weight with no safety devices(who needs those anyways).

I dunno, both the blowers have there strengths(SP>???) and weakness'. No product is 100% perfect and never will be. Go buy whatever will make you happy. Just my OPINIONS. -Mat-

 

Well again, the ETs between trucks don't mean squat, because the trucks are not equal. You've got 4300 lbs trucks and 4800lbs trucks. You've got trucks turning different 60fts. You've got trucks running at different tracks. There is nothing to equally compare ETs to make any kind of fair comparison. Everyone has the "what ifs". "What if JL ran a 100 shot?". How about "what if I made my truck 4300lbs?". Or "what if I turned a 1.46 60ft?". All people ever look at is the ETs, nobody ever looks at WHAT netted that ET. People are trying to compare JLs ET with the KB making the same power than I make. Has anyone actually LOOKED at the trap speeds? My truck is 7 mph faster than JLs. Not only is it 7 mph faster, it's 7 mph faster at over 400lbs more. That's a buttload of power difference people. So just because two trucks may be turning almost the same ETs, that doesn't mean the trucks are making the same power.

 

yes, but the difference of the #1 and #3 is over 400 lbs,

that is still a minimum of 2 tenths, and the lighter you get, you get the closer it gets to that tenth per 100 lb rule

also, the suspension has a ton to do with it, remember sals truck hopping from the front tire to the back tire, the truck was 100% off the ground

weight and suspension and power all combined have a ton to do with it, but to say weight doesn't matter is crazy,

in the end, look at the mph, that is the true measure of your power.

When i did the mod motor shootout in 2001.

i had the heaviest car in the class, my 60's were nearly 2 tenths off everyone elses, i was the 3rd quickest car and only .15 off of guys with .2 quicker in the 60's. typically if you are .2 quicker in the 60, you should be .3 to .4 in the 1/4. I also had the highest mph out of the entire class.

What does that show, a heavier vehicle, running almost as fast and faster than others, with worse 60's. It shows that more power is being made, plain and simple

 

The only real way to compare the 2 blowers would be a back to back test like Tim was saying. I think JL should just send REM a blower or they meet some where and do a back to back test to see how they compare up. And to be honest you are still going to have advantages and disadvantages to each one since overall power isn't what some people are looking for.

And my opinion on the Big (3) ET's is I think it's impressive that JL can run a 10.5 without nitrous even if his truck is 400#'s less than Sal's and Jim's. However I think it is just as impresssive that Jim can run a 10.5 with nitrous and still run the factory blower. And after seeing Sal's truck launch it's impressive to see him run a 10.48 at 131 mph and have all the traction problems he has. Now if they all could just find away to make all there mods cheaper we could all be faster.. Hint.. Hint.. Cheaper Short Block's!

 

How many of those NEW *KB* did you grendade of the Dyno Johnny? Wasnt one munched on a customers truck as well? Just rumors that i had heard floating around...

At any rate, the the Works M112 is just that, a rear entry version of the current Eaton. For what it is, it works quite well.

KB is still short of Cubic Inches compared to the Works. They also are top entry. KB is the one with the adapter plate that is universal, not the Works.

Everyone keeps saying you have to yank a 140 to change the plugs. Incorrecto. Works has changed its design for the better of the customer. This is why there is a delay. Im sure if you contact Chris, who probably about now is machining his blowers as we speak, you would hear REM will be receiving their orders very shortly. Believe me, REM has quite a few customers who has ordered the 140's with some serious trucks that will be making the top 3 tuners looking behind them and perhaps, bumping them off the top et list. Its just begun gentlemen.. 2003 is going to be a fine year.

Its also going to be a big year for the West Coast...

 

Spreading of these kinds of unsustantiated rumors is excatly what the New Years resolution was designed to stop. And the fact that the wording is chosen to cause as much trouble as possible...

Please refrain from these kinds of posts.

Thanks
Doug

 

Why dont you wait to see if he confirms it FIRST before acting upon banishment of the rules

 

I say both Johnny and Sal "GIVE ME" a blower each, and I'll put both through the proper Dyno and Track Testing.
Then we can install a Built Motor (give me ) and we'll continue the test and once again Dyno and Track Test each set-up.

I would be willing to donate my time to do this intense testing for no money, all I ask is to keep the winning goodies when we're done

God knows I talk enough, and always give it to you straight.
Everyone also knows I NEVER EVER talk bad about a Vendor or attack one. I'm from the 60's + 70's, I wan't everyone to Love me.
Who'd be more neutral than me, my tuners band from this place and in another State far far away.

I'll expect an e-mail from both of you later today asking for my shipping address

 

Ok, lets just lay out the facts and see who can decide which is better for themselves...

So anyway the KB has no adapter plate, it has a cast-in mounting plate like the stock one. But it's totally "one size fits all" (despite Jim Bell and Skip's claims that Works ones are one size fits all and not theirs) because it is drilled for both sets of bolt patterns, '99-'00 and '01-'03.

It looks ghetto with unused holes and a fat ugly flange

The Works adapter plate has individual ears that match up to the lower manifold, and there are two different plates for '99-'00 and '01-'03.

Second, there's nothing one-size-fits all about the Works kit other than the supercharger being a proven off-the-shelf unit, not a new unit with no testing foisted off on customers.

Now a little about the so called Works M112 that sucks...

The rear inlet 112 Works is actually different than just a stock 112 with a rear inlet. It's a "performance 112", meaning the inlet and discharge ports are a different size and shape, for more flow, more efficiency and broader range. Look at Dale Hines from Ventura CA... Just a set of Long Tubes, PSP tuned chip and the Works M112 netted him an 11... Sal uses the same blower..

 

Excellent post Doug

We can have a civil discussion about blowers without people coming in with unsubstantiated rumors.

If there were any failures of either a works blower or a KB blower, then leave it up to the customer to post their experiences and back it up with proof, and so far the only one that I have seen prove they had a failure was Don's Bolt.

We should all feel blessed that we have a choice in aftermarket blowers and tuners that are willing to lay it on the line to run their own unique combinations, it sure would suck to only have one place and one choice when it came to Lightning performance parts, I for one applaud all of them for doing what they do for our benefit