Oh yeah, why is it that when liberals are in favor of one thing, conservatives always call it "trying to shove something down everybody's throats," when conservatives try to do the same things to everybody else? i.e., trying to shove their views down everybody else's throats?

It all boils down to one thing. Conservatives only care about their views when it suits them. They tend to forget about everybody else. It's either fall in or fall out. It's always black and white. UNTIL it happens to them.

Take for instance criminals getting and paying for a good defense and getting off on technicalities, etc. Conservatives get up in arms about it. They blame liberals for the criminals getting off. They blame the scheister liberal lawyers.

What happens when a conservative gets caught? They hire the lawyers to get them off no matter what! When was the last time you saw a conservative on trial say, "I did it, punish me because I deserve it." They plead "Not guilty" and hire the best lawyers they can afford and they look for the loopholes and technicalities and they rejoice when they get off.

The major difference between conservatives and liberals is that the conservatives keep fooling themselves and everybody else. They are no better than the liberals they criticize. Conservatives would rather divide the country than admit to being wrong. They would rather divide the country than admit that opposing views have basis in law. They would rather divide the country that admit that they would take advantage of the laws that they blame liberals for.

Conservatives also fail to see the need for a strong two party system. If conservatives had their way, government would be run by conservatives and conservatives would run the Supreme Court too. Can you imagine the havoc? What religious conservative views would be acceptable? Who would rule? The Catholics? Baptists? Mormons? Scientologists? Muslims? How long before the US version of the Taliban takes over?

I tell you what. I'll let you guys pat each other on each other's backs and continue to fool yourselves into thinking your views are right and everybody else's is wrong. I'll let you guys fool yourselves into thinking that you're not trying to shove your views down everybody else's throats.

I thank my lucky stars that I live in a place where for the most part, Republicans and Democrats actually respect each other and have come together to pass some great legislation that has helped us stay a step ahead of the rest of the country.

 

Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, I love debating with you because you do bring up some good points.

First lets begin with this one:

"Article II.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

"Gun registration is not unconstitutional. You people are letting the NRA do your thinking for you."

Yes it is (unconstititutional) because of these very simple words (the right of the people to keep and bear Arms) I dont see the word PRIVLEGE in there I see the word RIGHT. When you register something like a car it is because it is a PRIVLEGE to do so, state can tell you at any time for any reason you no longer get the PRIVELGE to drive.

Since it is my right I should NOT have to re-pay the police for any background check I don't care if its $1.00. If the state wants that done, fine, then the state can pay for it by taxing every single person in that state, I don't care if I am the only one having a background check done or not. NO people should not have the choice of paying for my background check, unless of course I get the choice not to pay taxes that go towards 80% of lazy people on walfare.

Ok, ready for the next one?

Conservatives, most of them anyhow do NOT mind debating ideas with anyone, anywhere be it liberal etc. What they DONT like doing, myself included is debating someone else that has NO IDEAS, NO SOLUTIONS except MORE money. They do NOT like to debate against others who lie "The childern will starve, Grandma is going to die no med's for her, They want to take all grandma's Social Security money and stick it into stocks etc." Otherwise known as scare tatics.

Conservatives do NOT like debating against others who only see skin color and not the people under the skin color, their self worth, pride etc. Conservative have basically always been about making people self reliant on their own, not needing the help of others unless REALLY needed, giving people their pride back, letting them know they can indeed DO IT. Liberals have basically always been, well just plain wrong, where as they see only skin color first, they think its best for people to be at their weakest so they are dependant on givernment for their daily needs. It is what give Liberals power, money, MONEY. That is the bottom line as I stated before Liberals are all about POWER, CONTROL and MONEY, nothing more, nothing less.

You don't see Conservatives going around taking money from the working people, the people who make this country run and what it is. You don't usally see Conservatives stating we need more money to make this program work, rather you hear things like we need to strim line, cut the fat out etc. Yes I will admit you will hear Conservative asking for money for the military and that is as it should be. That is what keeps this country free, and by the way the Liberals in power, and a sh*t load of people that dont deserve government hand outs.

I find nothing wrong with more then one party, more then two parties. All I ask is that some, or most, of these Liberals start coming up with some real ideas to debate on rather then the stupid scare tatics they always use. It is amazing how much could be accomplished when two people come togeather and actually exchange ideas.

 

01 XLT Sport

Good post, and again, as I predicted Dennis pulls a liberal maneuver, lambasting us for certain flaws and again not addressing the issue. The issue at hand is that gun ownership is a Federal right conferred explicitly to us by the 2nd Amendment. Any registration or licensing interference with that right is unconstutional. He will not discuss that. But he will tell us we are fooling ourselves if we don't think we are shoving views down someone's throats. Come on now, who is shoving views here, the people that have a legitimate argument and debate going, or the people that won't even address the issue at hand and just name-call and offer irrelevent ramblings....

What's really a shame is that Dennis isn't a conservative, but also doesn't even make it to qualifying as a real liberal (there are very few real liberals). I've got a good friend who is a hard-core liberal and well-researched (kind of an oxymoron, huh?). He hates guns and would like to see them all removed from the US. The difference between my friend and Dennis is that my friend REFUSES to abuse the Constitution and thereby recognizes that any current gun registration law is inappropriate. He is actually for REPEALING the 2nd Amendment.

Now I can't say I agree with that crazy concept of my friend's at all, but I have to respect my friend's opinion. And I greatly appreciate the fact that as much as he hates firearms, he's smart enough and ethical enough to recognize the importance of respecting rights as established in the Constitution. I have heard him say before, "If I were to take a stance misinterpreting the 2nd Amendment solely for the end of getting guns removed (or licensed or whatever), then I will have participated in a misconstruction of the Constitution that could ultimately be turned against me maybe with the 1st Amendment, and I would never want that to happen..."

Maybe you could make a demand for specific answer (as I have seen Frank S do, and even then it takes eons for Dennis to respond) on this specific issue - how is licensing/registration not an infringment on the 2nd Amendment right........

 

cpadpl:

Not to mention we are NOT shoving our views down anyones throats. To be honest it is NOT a view, it is a FACT, it is in BLACK AND WHITE, It is a RIGHT.

So be it Dennis or anyone else saying it is our, yours, mine or anyone else's view is, well just a lie, we are only stating facts and for some God unknown reason liberals in general HATE dealing with facts. Liberals only like to deal in fiction, make believe, wishing upon a star...

If he or anyone else wants gun registration then fine. Go about it the proper way. Pass an amendment, get it ratified by 2/3's of the states (that would be 34 states) and there you go. Otherwise buy youself a box of tissues and cry your eyes out because you ain't going to change a thing. People like me are sure in the hell not going to give my gun to anyone. I will find one when needed like one way or the other. Guns are here, they are here to stay, get use to it now and live happy

 

Dennis,
There are federal regulations in place right now that prohibit the Government from keeping "Tab's" on who has what. I can't remember what the act is called, however it was written partly in fact just for many of the reasons listed in this post.

The Constitution does'nt mention registering of firearms, I guess thats they way they meant it to be.

Registration of my personal belongings does nothing to prevent crimes. Because if I register them, I must not be a criminal, if I'm not a criminal, why would I need to register? Why treat me like a felon???

Its a freedom, no one asked you to register your religion, did they?? Yet we have all see what Muslims are doing world wide, should we all have to register what religion we are???
Hey, if your Muslim, you have as good a chance as killing someone as I do with my firearms, maybe more so. I say this only to make a point, I'm not against anyone. The point is not all Muslims are evil, and we shouldn't treat them as such, deal with the bad ones!

More people die in the USA, from drinking and related accidents, and with drunk drivers we punish the guilty, we don't rid our citys of alcohol and the rest of the population is free to enjoy any beverage they wish. With guns, far less people die as a result, yet you hear about complete bans, and registration. Deal with the problem people!!

I'm tired to others trying to take away my rights. I'm tired of being associated with violent criminals, because I own firearms. I'm tired of people who are so narrow minded, that they feel its ok to take away my rights because they don't agree with what I do or have.

Putting that in perspective, Say your wife collects picture frames, she hasen't hurt anyone with them, however a recent rash of serial killings in the area have seen the use of picture frame glass to slit the throats of the victums. I don't collect picture frames , so I don't care if they take every god damn one!!! Does that give me or anyone the right to take away your wifes collection? make her register it? Is she a killer? NO...... She collects them because she enjoys it, it makes her happy. Well the Constitution also guarntees "the pursuit of happiness"!

Deal with the problem. Everyone should read the Constitution, I have.
And by the way Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than I have with my Firearms!!!
I save lives!

 

jstang:

You make a very GOOD point in your post, well many, but I want to point out one. You mentioned, which is a FACT that more people die in America because of drunk drivers yet NO ONE, not even Liberals are going and trying to take away everyones beer.

Do you know why? I am sure you do, but I will go ahead and point it out to show people how Liberals in general just don't make sence since they don't think through their misguided views.
The reason Liberals DON'T go after drunks, or take away EVERYONE else's beer is because there are a SH*T load of people who drink, and for the most part responsible. The point is the MAJORITY of people drink therefore the Liberals don't go after them. If they tried they would be SHUT DOWN in a heart beat because all those people would be paying attention.

If the majority of people owned guns the Liberals wouldn't even think about going after them for their guns. If the minority of people drank then the Liberals WOULD go after them. Liberals have to lie to get their misguided points across to the general public. They tell them such BS like thousdands of people die from firearm accidents. My point on that is SO WHAT? What they don't do and don't pay attention to or bring light to is how many people are ALIVE today because of a gun. More people are alive because of guns then who have died because of an accident with one therefore it's better to have the guns then not to. (More are alive with then without) So why don't Liberals state the facts tell the people the way it really is, something like this:

"We want more people to die each year so we want to take guns away"

If they actually told the truth about it the debate would pretty much be DEAD, no pun intended

My point about my remark on SO WHAT about people who die because of firearm accidents is this. People die everyday because of one accident or another. Some fall down stairs and die, some run into trees and die, others die playing with their make-up or cell phones in their car, and the list goes on. So the point about firearms and accidental death is a MUTE point as far as guns go, it makes NO sence to use it as a point.

And you Liberals out there please dont bring up the stupid comments about the poor childern who die because of accidents with firearms, it to is MUTE for any valued argument against firearms. Why because more children are ALIVE because of guns.

If you Liberals are REALLY concerned about the children in America then start going after the drunks first since they kill many many more children in America each and every year. If you do that you will have to leave one of your core beliefs which is "It's not their fault" LOL God that is such a funny line Liberals love to use, yet I have never heard a Liberal say that about a parent who had a child die because of a firearm accident. In those cases it is the parents fault, of which I would agree with them. Yet if that same parent went out and ran down 5 kids at a bus stop because they were drunk, well then, it wouldn't be that guys fault. See what I mean Liberals are never on a stright line, it depends if it fits within their agenda.

 

XLT Sport, you make some very valid points. Lets have everyone be honest here, How many of us have had alcohol, and drove? Full well knowing we could be over the legal limits?

Not that the legal limit would render you "unsafe" but knowing that what you are doing is wrong? Illegal!


That my friend is bad judgement, Is bad judgement in itself illegal?
No!!!........... having a BAC over a certian limit is. Yet some people under the legal limit will be drunk. Unable to drive safely. can they get a DWI under the law?

It's not being drunk that kills, it's the bad judgement to drive.
Firearm accidents are bad judgment, people not educating their children, or not taking the proper precautions to keep them secure. Or it could be the gang-banger cutting someone down to be cool, or maybe somone was selling on his turf. All examples of bad judgement.

Good judgement comes from experiance, experiance comes from,...well... bad judgement, or education.

I take every percaution I can.

Try as you may, you can't teach someone common sence.
So lets not be out to punish the people who exersize good judgement and common sence, lets deal with those who really need to be tought a lesson.

 

To be honest I have never drove after drinking, but I am not much of a drinker to begin with (not even a 6-pack a year). With that said and as many alcohol related accidents that happen I would NEVER say "time to ban beer" because as you said its not the drink or beer or whatever that kills it is the idiot that made the bad decission to do so.

That is one of the BIGGEST mistakes that happens each and every day is most people don't have the ***** to hold a individual responsible for their actions. I mean it just as said, "no *****" because alot of people "behind closed doors" feel just like myself and you and others on this board do that people should be responsible for their actions. Don't matter there parents abused them, don't matter if they are on drugs, don't matter if they come from a poor home, they are responsible for their actions and NO ONE else.

Same for guns, guns DO NOT kill, they don't load themselfs, they don't take themself out of storage, they don't aim themselfs, they don't pull their own trigger the "PERSON" holding the gun does all that. It's very very simple but Liberals just don't get it. There all alot of things that kill, guns, cars, bats, knives, glass, cigerattes, food, alcohol, and the list could go on and on. The only ones Liberals have the ***** to address are the ones where there is only a minority of people involved in. You will never see Liberals try to ban alcohol, cars, bats, knives, etc. Yet you did see them basically ban cigerattes which again only a minority of people use.

Basically its like this, Liberals have NEVER been, nor will they ever be for the minority, be it guns, cigerattes, or the color of your skin, if your in the minority then Liberals will try to take advantage of you each and every day. That is a fact

 

The government did take away your grandaddy's and/or great grandaddy's beers. It was called Ammendment 18 - more commonly known as prohibition.
However, because of the 1st and 2nd Ammendments, the 21st Ammendment was passed, which repealed the 18th Ammendment.

 

there weren't exactly a lot of liberals running around the
Congress back then. Ah, the good ole days! lol

 

Guns don't kill people...Cops kill people ... mostly bad ones for the moment. So when the cops are the only ones with guns then that will give them absolute power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So that would mean our society would be run by criminals (corrupt cops). Get the picture ? Has anyone ever been to Mexico? That's the way it is there. You bribe your way out of trouble (mostly made up) because they are corrupt. Yeah, that is how I would like things if guns are confiscated....NOT!!! There was a lot of debate and wisdom when our constitution was written. Most of the wisdom came from past experiences by our forefathers. Now we have people trying to foresake that knowledge and wisdom , mostly due to mass media hysteria and hype. My message to all liberals "Be careful what you ask for because you might just get it". Wouldn't that be just grand. The people would be subdued and downtrodden with very little recourse , if any . Most liberals are 3 move chess players with no vision of the end result .

Just my $.02 worth.

 

canyonslicker:

Excellent post. That is what most liberals just don't seem to understand. You know the funny thing of it (though I don't find anything liberals do funny, but dangerous) is the fact that most liberals would be the first ones snuffed out. The talk about how bad the RICH people are. Well liberals heres a news flash:

Who the hell do you think will be running things and owning guns illegally?

Man, you liberals out their just don't use the 5 or 6 brain cells you still have left...

Liberals think and speak with their hearts, they never think anything through only for the moment. Never NO logic behind their reasons, just feel good, make love not war BS.

No one ever told them you could make love during a war.
Its a win-win situation...

 

canyonslicker:

Agreed, excellent post. I like to pull that one on my liberal friend once in awhile. Picture this - a time without television or radio. A time when all you had to do was read (and that you did). Just about every Founding Father was a lawyer as well as a statesmen. Some were later determined to be revolutionary geniuses based on common censensus (Franklin, Jefferson).

Shouldn't we basically "presume" that they knew what the hell they were talking about? There's nothing more arrogant than some television watching, non-book reading guy who probably hasn't read the Constitution since 3rd grade opining on what the Founding Fathers did and didn't mean.

I like to ask my liberal buddy, "Who do you think knows best about Constitutional matters, a well-educated, hard-nosed lawyer who actually participated in the Revolution and drafted the law based on those experiences, or your TV watching, beer drinking, pot-smoking, know-it-all, can't hold a job, half-***?"

He actually "gets his feelings hurt" with that one, so I can only use it sparingly...

 

Many of our founding fathers were smart, very smart men. But
just look at their influences. Writings by Rousseau and Locke
directly influenced Jefferson and others in the writing of our
Constitution and Declaration of Independence. It is definetly
safe to assume they knew exactly what they were doing. They
did their homework, you might say.

 

cpadpl:

When you hurt your friends feelings do you "feel his pain?"

Please tell me that you do NOT “feel his pain” but rather feel for the unfortunate situation he found himself in due to his lack of knowledge.