I wouldn't venture to say that is a "liberal" opinion by any stretch. However, I just find it compelling that he has not been further scruitinized for having strong ties to racism. I guess I just don't see how that should be acceptable by any race, liberal or conservative. It was possible to look past the first pastor with ties to Obama with thoughts of "Maybe they haven't been close for a long time and he developed new views." or "Maybe that pastor is the one bad apple personality tied to Obama".

But now there is a second who is both a feminist and a racist and he also has strong ties to Obama as being a spiritual leader and mentor in his life. It's not just isolated events here, one needs to look at a series of events and see the common theme.

 

 

My take on it.
I can't hold somebody responsible for what others say.
I believe being a member of that church helped his political career at the local and state level. Politicians do those sort of things. Now that it has bit him on the national level, he first reputiated it and when it continued he quit the church.

What comes out of his own mouth he can be held accountable for.
Now if I was black, and my white grandmother said she was afraid of blacks, my brain would tell me this must be how 'typical' white people think.
I cannot believe he referred to his grandmother with a hint of contempt with that remark, his was an off the cuff remark that made for a good 'gotcha'.
He dedicated his nomination to her last night.

Look at state map grids where Hillary kicked his butt.
Rural areas where 'guns and churches' prevail, you say it wrong and you have to wear it.

McCain may have a punchers chance if Obama passes on the 'dream ticket'.
But if the Country is offered Obama plus two co-vice presidents named Clinton, McCain will need Jesus Christ in the number two spot to make it close.

 

Do you actually believe that most parts of people's lives are bleak? I would put forward that, in the USA, the majority of people live great lives. The best way to understand just how good it is here is to visit somewhere else!

Grim

 

I agree

 

That's a pretty glossy take on it Raoul. It continued for months with the first pastor and it took weeks for him to reputiate it. It was only months later and after a SECOND pastor making racist remarks that he decided to leave the church. Obama is quoted as calling BOTH his spiritual mentors and guides throughout his life. It's one thing to say that you don't share that person's view in the same congregation as you. But to have them be your spiritual leader, baptize your children and be that close, well that is a different story. It wasn't a "we happen to go to the same church" kind of thing. The "their views are not my own" defense doesn't really work because racists don't get racist views over night, it's a continued feeling that fests over years. Those men were racists for the 20 years they were spiritual leader's for Obama during that time and he held them close to him while it advanced his political career at the State level. Now there racist comments and views are at a national level and it becomes less popular and turns into a relationship of convenience, which just happens to no longer be convenient for Obama.

 

Your a smart man F150 Duke. I agree 100%

 

X2

This is history I would like to forget..

 

Being another black man on this forum OG, I can tell you- there are a LOT of racists on this site. But, there are a few cool guys too. I don't mean to imply anyone who cares about their own race first is racist. But, if anyone thinks they're better than someone else, because of their race- is indeed racist, by definition.

Indeed, yesterday was a great day for American's. I know Dr. King would indeed be proud at how far we've come, but would still admit we have a long way to go.

Few on here have the objectivity to look at a situation, or a person, and deal with the issue, rather than the race. I said there are only a few, but indeed- there are a few who can, and do- which is one of the three reasons I still hang around here.

#1.) Great debates. (There are some sharp guys & gals on this site)
#2.) An overall cool group of guys & gals. (Until politics come into play)
#3.) Argue about trucks.

But, just thinking about the demographic of who mostly owns F-150's (Or pick-up trucks, in general), and the fact that this is an F-150 site, there aren't many who will take the time to look at the "black" side of a debate. Equally, there aren't a lot of blacks that will consider the "white" side's point of view either.

The good news is, as the country ages, and newer generations mature, the line between blacks and whites grows more and more gray. Soon, it'll all be gray. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but- one day.

But for now, with these guys. You have to learn which ones to ignore, and which ones will at least aknowledge and comprehend what you say, and debate with you on that level, rather than the ones who you waste keystrokes even responding to.

You gotta have tough skin with these guys, and be willing to take the gloves off, when you need to.

 

Guys, let's not forget, the second pastor was white too...

You don't have to divorce yourself from people who happen to say or do stupid things. Pastor's can be firey, and say things in the heat of the moment. But, that's human nature.

Haven't we all said something at some point that we wish we could get back, or at least qualify?

I supported Clinton in the Texas Primaries, but as the campaign has continued, I found myself liking Obama more and more. It has nothing to do with the fact that he's black. And, although I know he can't do the one thing he said he will do (Bring the troops back home), aside from that- he seems to have a good plan.

After eight years of Bush, how can he mess the country up more?

If you understand anything about campaigning, then you'll also understand why the fact that I know he can't bring the troops home, even though he said he will, doesn't worry me. It's not cool to do it that way, but to me, the fault lies with the one's who sent them, not with the ones who have to figure out how to get them back.

If Obama is racist, and I have seen no evidence that he is, then his being spared lashes from the media, is no less than what Bush got. Bush's house in Dallas, TX had a clause on it, allowing it to only be sold to a WHITE customer. That's right, a "White only" clause. That came up during his 2000 Presidential bid, and as quickly as it came up, it was swept under the rug. Bush, an Yale educated law student, claimed to be ignorant of the fact that his house had that clause on it.

A lawyer that doesn't read the fine print (if it was in fine print). Who wouldda thunk it?

If buying, then selling a house with a Whites Only clause on it, is not a tie to racism, then what is?

 

I agree that it gets tough around here sometimes and you need to have thick skin. I am not a white guy either. I am half Cuban and Half Italian. I was the first person in my family born in the US. Most people think I am mexican but I know that they think this way because they are ignorant and have only lived in Texas where there arent many races except mexican, black, and white.

And for the record I dont hate obama for his race. I just strongly dissagree with his views, opinions, and actions.

I do believe that most black people will vote for Obama just because he is the same race as them.

 

I beg to differ.
The glossy take is to link snippets out of context.
Taken in context, he referred to them as mentors and guides in leading him to Jesus and his spirtual journey, nothing more.
In no reference at any time, did he say they were mentors or guides in the Government being behind HIV or any of the other vile claims.

I choose to believe what he says over what his detractors are hell bent to portray.

 

The thing that cracks me up about these nominations and political parties for president is the people. I mean I watched a little bit of Obama's speech last night and I was laughing at the people in the audience. There were thousand upon thousands of people waving flags and signs and jumping up and down cheering, like thier team just won the super bowl. If anyone thinks that any president is going to "Change" the world or your life, you are sadly mistaken. People should be more concerned about state and local government, but the sad thing is when these elections are held, nobody seems to turn out or give a rats a$$. Your state and local officials are the ones that control your taxes, they make the silly little laws and ordinance in your town, these are the candidates that you should be voting for and spending your time worrying about. But instead, people seem to get all worked up over some guy we no nothing about, who we will never meet and someone who may never even visit the state you live in during his presidency.

I can say one thing is Obamas case. I am sorry, but I don't want someone in the White house that has ties to a Muslim religion when these are the people that we have been fighting against. The country has just lost it's mind. On September 11th, this whole country wanted to blow the entire middle east up, now the people want to elect a Muslim to run the country . I Mean WFT!!!! people can say what they want about his religious back ground, but the fact is he has been part of a Muslim religion and to me there is question whether or not he can be trusted.

 

Hey Hersh! Long time no see on the boards!

You're absolutely correct, he is white. However, I don't think that is the point. I'm going to say something that I know is obvious to all of us but you don't need to be a certain color to be a racist.

I just cannot stress it enough, based on views of striving towards equality for all genders and races, any individual regardless of gender, title or race should be condemned for making racist remarks. Fortunately Mr. Obama did these things when they were brought to light regarding his two pastors. That is what kept is bid for being a Presidential canidate afloat.

BUT it never should have come to that in the first place. There is no good reason why those two racist men should be someone's spiritual leaders and close individuals to their family (Obama just didn't show up to church with the first pastor). There is no excusing it. We all also know that racism is not something that people wake up with one day. It's a learned behavior or feeling that grows over years of being in that environment. Obama choose to stay in that environment for years and only left once it became inconvenient on a national level.

I agree, we should have black/white/or any other race men and women running for President and being nominees. However, Barrack Obama is not the person that is being painted as a Presidental nominee savior for fair and positive change because of his close ties and support to racism.

I would be on the same soap box if it was a white Senator who left his church because his black and/or white pastor made racist remarks, but he had in fact stayed with that church for years, knowing full well the racist views being held by that church.

 

You mean bad dream ticket, no matter who he chooses for a running mate. You think this country is bad off now, if stinky BO gets elected president this place will change for sure, and it will definitely be a nightmare for all freedom loving Americans, but the pinko commies will love it.