what the hell is it with Toyota's?
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From: North of Dallas, South of Frisco
Originally Posted by kamikaze2b
Funny, I always see this argument when it pertains to cars, but oddly this "rule" is never applied to any other consumer products. I best the vast majority of people that would never own a "foreign" car have TVs, shoes, tools, kitchen appliances, watches, and hell maybe even guns that were made somewhere besides the USA. Unless you buy everything that's American made, and don't EVER shop at Wal-Mart, you are nothing but a hypocrite.
This is true... These guys are quick to call someone else blind, nearsighted, short sighted, stupid or what have you- yet they can't see the forest for all the freaking trees in the way.
They're more "Anti-Japan" than they are, "Pro-American" because I bet there are few of them who'd turn down a new Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini, or Ferrari. Those are foreign cars too...
I bet most of them have Sony TV's, Playstations, Nintendo's, and most other consumer electronic devices, from clock-radios to the computer they're typing on. It matters not where you drop the biggest wad of money. You and I may only spend $100 - $300 a month at Wal-Mart. And, maybe buy a car every 2-3 years. But, I'd bet GM & Ford WISHES they made in a decade, what Wal-Mart (... Or Sony, LG, Sanyo, Hitachi, Samsung, etc...) pulls down in a year. Whether you're buying cars, or laptop PC's- when you pay tax on it, you're helping America- you are contributing to American Society, the American Military, the American way. You just may not be contributing to a certain company's bottom line.
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by kamikaze2b
Funny, I always see this argument when it pertains to cars, but oddly this "rule" is never applied to any other consumer products. I best the vast majority of people that would never own a "foreign" car have TVs, shoes, tools, kitchen appliances, watches, and hell maybe even guns that were made somewhere besides the USA. Unless you buy everything that's American made, and don't EVER shop at Wal-Mart, you are nothing but a hypocrite.
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by Bighersh
This is true... These guys are quick to call someone else blind, nearsighted, short sighted, stupid or what have you- yet they can't see the forest for all the freaking trees in the way.
They're more "Anti-Japan" than they are, "Pro-American" because I bet there are few of them who'd turn down a new Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini, or Ferrari. Those are foreign cars too...
I bet most of them have Sony TV's, Playstations, Nintendo's, and most other consumer electronic devices, from clock-radios to the computer they're typing on. It matters not where you drop the biggest wad of money. You and I may only spend $100 - $300 a month at Wal-Mart. And, maybe buy a car every 2-3 years. But, I'd bet GM & Ford WISHES they made in a decade, what Wal-Mart (... Or Sony, LG, Sanyo, Hitachi, Samsung, etc...) pulls down in a year. Whether you're buying cars, or laptop PC's- when you pay tax on it, you're helping America- you are contributing to American Society, the American Military, the American way. You just may not be contributing to a certain company's bottom line.
They're more "Anti-Japan" than they are, "Pro-American" because I bet there are few of them who'd turn down a new Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini, or Ferrari. Those are foreign cars too...
I bet most of them have Sony TV's, Playstations, Nintendo's, and most other consumer electronic devices, from clock-radios to the computer they're typing on. It matters not where you drop the biggest wad of money. You and I may only spend $100 - $300 a month at Wal-Mart. And, maybe buy a car every 2-3 years. But, I'd bet GM & Ford WISHES they made in a decade, what Wal-Mart (... Or Sony, LG, Sanyo, Hitachi, Samsung, etc...) pulls down in a year. Whether you're buying cars, or laptop PC's- when you pay tax on it, you're helping America- you are contributing to American Society, the American Military, the American way. You just may not be contributing to a certain company's bottom line.
When you buy from Toyota yes you pay sales tax but the revenue heads overseas. Belive what you want but Fords revenue will stay here in the U.S. where is will be spent over and over and be taxed multiple times and support companies here in America. Do you think Toyotas profit trickles back into the American Economy? So what they built a couple plants to build a nice "were American as apple pie" picture. They dont care about employing Americans, they care about reduced import taxes and the future profits this Toyota is American picture they are trying to paint. Yes Ford has to outsourse, they do it out of necessity not from choice. Who cares if the profit is going to the big pockets of Fords higher ups, it is still money that will remain in the U.S. and therefore it is better for our economy and our country.
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From: North of Dallas, South of Frisco
Originally Posted by scott1981
Do you know why American options dont exist? Its because people did not support the American companies in this segment when they had the oppertunity. Now the only options are foreign. Your thought pattern is what will leave us with no American companies left.
When you buy from Toyota yes you pay sales tax but the revenue heads overseas. Belive what you want but Fords revenue will stay here in the U.S. where is will be spent over and over and be taxed multiple times and support companies here in America. Do you think Toyotas profit trickles back into the American Economy? So what they built a couple plants to build a nice "were American as apple pie" picture. They dont care about employing Americans, they care about reduced import taxes and the future profits this Toyota is American picture they are trying to paint (And Ford, GM and Chrysler do??) .
Yes Ford has to outsourse, they do it out of necessity not from choice. Who cares if the profit is going to the big pockets of Fords higher ups, it is still money that will remain in the U.S. and therefore it is better for our economy and our country. (For a select few, not the masses. The masses are better off spending their hard-earned cash, on products that will hold up longer, and give them a return on their investment...).
When you buy from Toyota yes you pay sales tax but the revenue heads overseas. Belive what you want but Fords revenue will stay here in the U.S. where is will be spent over and over and be taxed multiple times and support companies here in America. Do you think Toyotas profit trickles back into the American Economy? So what they built a couple plants to build a nice "were American as apple pie" picture. They dont care about employing Americans, they care about reduced import taxes and the future profits this Toyota is American picture they are trying to paint (And Ford, GM and Chrysler do??) .
Yes Ford has to outsourse, they do it out of necessity not from choice. Who cares if the profit is going to the big pockets of Fords higher ups, it is still money that will remain in the U.S. and therefore it is better for our economy and our country. (For a select few, not the masses. The masses are better off spending their hard-earned cash, on products that will hold up longer, and give them a return on their investment...).
Ford and GM have rebounded nicely, but after years, if not decades of offering inferior products in the name of, "Buy American, and accept this crap", the shark has risen to bite them in their proverbail *****.
The UAW has a lot to do with why GM, Ford, and Chrysler find themselves in "the buck" right now. While it was a novel idea to take care of their employees (I wish more companies would, but they don't), the rising cost of healthcare, and longer lifespans have caused a severe hemoarge in their savings account. Unlike other big companies, if they go away from the pension plan, and intriduce a 401-K like structure- making the employee responsible for their own savings, the UAW wil strike and they won't be building cars. So, they're caught between a rock, and a bigger rock.
Consequently, saddled with all that debt, with UAW being inflexible- living for today, rather than for the future, and with a need to keep their executives and shareholders well-compensated, Ford (GM and Chrysler) have to close plants, and outsource thousands of formerly American (USA) jobs to Canadians, and Mexicans where the dollar goes further. All American companies are doing it, even Levi-Garrett jeans are (for the most part) no longer sewn in the US. Everybody is outsourcing to India, China, Argentina, Phillipines, etc... everyone from the automotive industry, to telecom, to the garment industry. Every dollar they save there, goes to the pockets of a select few American's, not the masses as one might have you believe.
So, while there are still quite a few employed Americans, there are not nearly as many as it would be, if American companies were as loyal to their people as they used to be. When the paradigm shifted from being loyal to their employees (Soley owned corporations) to loyalty to the bottom line (Public traded compaanies), that began the spiral into oblivion for the American worker...
Not automation, not pensions, not medical coverage, not quality control, not Japan. But a paradigm shift in how companies do business, with a little help from each of the items mentioned above.
So, no- thinking like "me" won't kill American companies. American companies thinking and doing business the way they do, will.
Last edited by Bighersh; Aug 20, 2007 at 04:28 PM.
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by Bighersh
You have good points Scott, but it's not my thoughts that will make American companies go under- it's their actions.
Ford and GM have rebounded nicely, but after years, if not decades of offering inferior products in the name of, "Buy American, and accept this crap", the shark has risen to bite them in their proverbail *****.
The UAW has a lot to do with why GM, Ford, and Chrysler find themselves in "the buck" right now. While it was a novel idea to take care of their employees (I wish more companies would, but they don't), the rising cost of healthcare, and longer lifespans have caused a severe hemoarge in their savings account. Unlike other big companies, if they go away from the pension plan, and intriduce a 401-K like structure- making the employee responsible for their own savings, the UAW wil strike and they won't be building cars. So, they're caught between a rock, and a bigger rock.
Consequently, saddled with all that debt, with UAW being inflexible- living for today, rather than for the future, and with a need to keep their executives and shareholders well-compensated, Ford (GM and Chrysler) have to close plants, and outsource thousands of formerly American (USA) jobs to Canadians, and Mexicans where the dollar goes further. All American companies are doing it, even Levi-Garrett jeans are (for the most part) no longer sewn in the US. Everybody is outsourcing to India, China, Argentina, Phillipines, etc... everyone from the automotive industry, to telecom, to the garment industry. Every dollar they save there, goes to the pockets of a select few American's, not the masses as one might have you believe.
So, while there are still quite a few employed Americans, there are not nearly as many as it would be, if American companies were as loyal to their people as they used to be. When the paradigm shifted from being loyal to their employees (Soley owned corporations) to loyalty to the bottom line (Public traded compaanies), that began the spiral into oblivion for the American worker...
Not automation, not pensions, not medical coverage, not quality control, not Japan. But a paradigm shift in how companies do business, with a little help from each of the items mentioned above.
So, no- thinking like "me" won't kill American companies. American companies thinking and doing business the way they do, will.
Ford and GM have rebounded nicely, but after years, if not decades of offering inferior products in the name of, "Buy American, and accept this crap", the shark has risen to bite them in their proverbail *****.
The UAW has a lot to do with why GM, Ford, and Chrysler find themselves in "the buck" right now. While it was a novel idea to take care of their employees (I wish more companies would, but they don't), the rising cost of healthcare, and longer lifespans have caused a severe hemoarge in their savings account. Unlike other big companies, if they go away from the pension plan, and intriduce a 401-K like structure- making the employee responsible for their own savings, the UAW wil strike and they won't be building cars. So, they're caught between a rock, and a bigger rock.
Consequently, saddled with all that debt, with UAW being inflexible- living for today, rather than for the future, and with a need to keep their executives and shareholders well-compensated, Ford (GM and Chrysler) have to close plants, and outsource thousands of formerly American (USA) jobs to Canadians, and Mexicans where the dollar goes further. All American companies are doing it, even Levi-Garrett jeans are (for the most part) no longer sewn in the US. Everybody is outsourcing to India, China, Argentina, Phillipines, etc... everyone from the automotive industry, to telecom, to the garment industry. Every dollar they save there, goes to the pockets of a select few American's, not the masses as one might have you believe.
So, while there are still quite a few employed Americans, there are not nearly as many as it would be, if American companies were as loyal to their people as they used to be. When the paradigm shifted from being loyal to their employees (Soley owned corporations) to loyalty to the bottom line (Public traded compaanies), that began the spiral into oblivion for the American worker...
Not automation, not pensions, not medical coverage, not quality control, not Japan. But a paradigm shift in how companies do business, with a little help from each of the items mentioned above.
So, no- thinking like "me" won't kill American companies. American companies thinking and doing business the way they do, will.
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From: Connecticut
with all due respect, I can agree with many points, but I wouldnt say that Ford is rebounding or doing all that well financially. Except for their truck sales, they have been doing poorly and posting quarterly lossesl with their sales over all. Some industry analysts believe that their truck sales are carrying the company to some extent.
I think given the fact that we have thousands here who take pride in owning a Ford truck because of its tried and true reputation, the idea of jumping on the Toyota band wagon would almost seem unwarranted. Seriously- full size Ford trucks have a long history of being a proven work horse. Toyota is relatively new to the full size market and their track record of using thinner gage sheet metal on at least their smaller trucks and cars has left many of us with visuals of rusted vehicles.
Maybe in time, they will prove to be what they claim they are right now
Just my opinion
I think given the fact that we have thousands here who take pride in owning a Ford truck because of its tried and true reputation, the idea of jumping on the Toyota band wagon would almost seem unwarranted. Seriously- full size Ford trucks have a long history of being a proven work horse. Toyota is relatively new to the full size market and their track record of using thinner gage sheet metal on at least their smaller trucks and cars has left many of us with visuals of rusted vehicles.
Maybe in time, they will prove to be what they claim they are right now
Just my opinion